Needed... 10' 2x4s (preferably quartersawn)

[Phil Thien]

For the record softwoods are always referred to as "Vertical grain", not quarter sawn. Thats a hardwood designation. Right from national manufacturers association grading handbooks.

Are you sure about that?

I had asked an old timer about that once and he told me that vertical grain allowed for 60-90 degree grain, basically anything that didn't look flat-sawn.

He said quarter-sawn typically yielded more in the 75-90 range, and closer to 90 than 75.

This guy had told me all quarter-sawn is vertical grain, but not all vertical grain is quarter-sawn.

He sure seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

He said softwood isn't typically sold as QS because it really isn't milled that way. They flat-saw it, and then the vertical grain stuff is hand-selected from that.

BTW, he had both. Vertical grain, and QS. And I do have QS I purchased from him in my basement right now.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Phil - nibbling around the edges. Would not dream of arguing with your expert, just sayin.............


It is flat-sawn and then sorted on a grade chain. There is a never-ending discussion about what degrees is qtrswn, and what is rift-sawn in hardwoods. The softwood is selected for the results on the long faces - so there is a wider range of opportunity. You don't get the grain appearance of, say QS Sycamore or WO in the softwoods. You get the long, nice, straight lines.

[Art Mann]

There are small time bandsaw mill operators where I live who will mill quarter sawn, rift sawn or flat sawn lumber to order. You just have to pay them a lot more to cut rift or quarter sawn. You also have to wait a long time. I am waiting for some quarter sawn Sycamore right now. If you tell them you want quarter sawn pine or fir, they will know what you mean whether it is hardwood or not. You almost never see quarter sawn lumber at the big box stores around here even occasionally. The reason is they buy cheap lumber from logs that are too small. That is why you normally see the pith in a large percentage of the pieces. It takes a big log to yield much vertical grain wood.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Art - well said. Spot-on.

[Ted Calver]

Maybe pay a little more and use LVL.
http://www.homebuilders.org/file_dep...gs%2048-59.pdf

[Prashun Patel]

Dan-

I'm gonna step back for a second and ask if we're over-engineering this.

My house is a cookie cutter big-box builder house. My basement was finished by a contractor. I'm certain NONE of the framing lumber in my home was picked out with intention. I just don't think it matters that much.

Before this thread, I would have just gone to a reputable lumber dealer and asked for 10ft framing lumber. If it arrived and looked to be in bad condition, I would have sent it back. Else, I'd just have used it. I just doubt you'll have an issue with this strategy.

[Phil Thien]

Dan-

I'm gonna step back for a second and ask if we're over-engineering this.

My house is a cookie cutter big-box builder house. My basement was finished by a contractor. I'm certain NONE of the framing lumber in my home was picked out with intention. I just don't think it matters that much.

Before this thread, I would have just gone to a reputable lumber dealer and asked for 10ft framing lumber. If it arrived and looked to be in bad condition, I would have sent it back. Else, I'd just have used it. I just doubt you'll have an issue with this strategy.

I think everything you said is absolutely true with the exception that, regular customers of a yard will probably get pretty consistent quality materials because the yard knows that they'll accept and what they'll send back.

I think as a homeowner, it would pay to visit the yard and take a look at what they have. Let them show you what your dollars will buy and decide if you'd be happy with the stuff before having it delivered.

This would be doing the yard a solid, as well, as it will avoid a lot of possible confusion and costs on their end.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan-

I'm gonna step back for a second and ask if we're over-engineering this.

My house is a cookie cutter big-box builder house. My basement was finished by a contractor. I'm certain NONE of the framing lumber in my home was picked out with intention. I just don't think it matters that much.

Before this thread, I would have just gone to a reputable lumber dealer and asked for 10ft framing lumber. If it arrived and looked to be in bad condition, I would have sent it back. Else, I'd just have used it. I just doubt you'll have an issue with this strategy.

Me? Over-engineer? Pfft!

I want straight because I know what a royal PITA it is to attach drywall to a stud when you're not quite sure where the centerline lies hidden behind that sheet. Even worse, if you're trying to attach something to the stud wall after the wall is mudded/painted. I'll happily pay a premium to get wood I can count on.

But I'm not sold on any one method just yet...

[Prashun Patel]

You sound like you've built walls before. I framed out my basement bathroom, and I conclude that 'stick' framing is kind of designed to keep things true enough, especially when adding cross members for cabinet nailing and once drywalled. Reasonable 2x4's are flexible enough in their thickness that they can be moved into submission enough to tame reasonable twist or bow. As for crook, I just don't find that 2x4's are guilty once acclimated. Especially in a basement which doesn't get raking light, I doubt you'd notice any minor bow in the walls.

You might just do better to order extra regular stuff and discard/return all the offenders.

In lieu of hard-to-find-or-expensive qs 10-foot framing lumber, is it stupid to make 10 footers by sistering 2 flatsawn 8-footers? I mean, they'd keep each other honest, give you a super wide nailing footprint for drywall and cabinets and would only be skinny at the top and bottom 1foot respectively.

I know, I'm back to over-engineering, but, I'm one of those too.

[scott vroom]

Me? Over-engineer? Pfft!

I want straight because I know what a royal PITA it is to attach drywall to a stud when you're not quite sure where the centerline lies hidden behind that sheet. Even worse, if you're trying to attach something to the stud wall after the wall is mudded/painted. I'll happily pay a premium to get wood I can count on.

But I'm not sold on any one method just yet...

Dan, you're overthinking this. Have you checked with your local lumberyard for availability of 10' #1 structural fir studs? They're readily available out here at quality lumber yards. If your concern is even spacing for drywall then simply cut a pile of 14.5" 2 x 4 blocking and put one midpoint between the studs (assuming 16OC). No need for qtr sawn. No need for metal. LVL's...Whaaaa?

Time to quit talkin' and start chalkin'

[Art Mann]

I agree that Dan may be worrying a little too much about straight lumber. On the other hand, I have had to deal with warped and twisted studs in my house and a few others I have worked on. It is much better to use good material in the first place rather than fix bad material after assembly.

When someone asks a specific question, I try to provide a specific answer, even if it I don't think it is a good idea. In this case, Dan is looking for ultra premium 10 foot studs. In my town, there are two ways to get them. (1) Special order premium lumber from a good lumber yard. They typically don't carry it in stock. (2) Hire a small local saw miller to cut and dry quarter sawn lumber to order.

[Lee Schierer]

For reference, the basement is roughly 2,300 square feet, completely unfinished. I expect roughly 1/4 of it to be my new workshop, 1/2 to be split between a media room and general lounging area, and the final 1/4 to be split between a bathroom, mini wine cellar, and some as-of-yet undefined area.

I would caution against metal studs in a basement application as they will tend to rust if there is any moisture, running wiring can be more difficult than with wood and hanging anything off the walls in the future is more difficult. Better to use the blue treated wood that is mold resistant, insuring that your wood is installed with appropriate vapor barriers.

[Dan Hintz]

You sound like you've built walls before.

The entire basement in the old house. Ripped everything out the last guy did (poorly... non-PT against the floor, which later rotted due to water instrusion), fixed all gaps/holes, DryLocked wherever possible, insulated everything with extruded foam to double as a vapor barrier, then set up new stud walls. I offset the wall from the insulation a couple of inches to allow easy installation of electrical and plumbing and used the plastic clips meant for holding multi-cable runs to metal stud walls (which is why I'm stunned I didn't think of it myself)... as I fixed or added items, I could quickly rip out the electrical and rerun it, as necessary, simply by unclipping the plastic ties. I'm definitely doing that option again.

Dan, you're overthinking this. Have you checked with your local lumberyard for availability of 10' #1 structural fir studs?

I have not, which is why I asked here if that was the proper place to be looking for such items. Now that I've narrowed down the proper places to start, when time permits (this weekend?) I can start visiting them.

I agree that Dan may be worrying a little too much about straight lumber. On the other hand, I have had to deal with warped and twisted studs in my house and a few others I have worked on. It is much better to use good material in the first place rather than fix bad material after assembly.

Exactly! I initially did plenty of twisting, pushing, tweaking, etc. trying to force a board into compliance. In the end, it's just easier to get a straight freakin' board in the first place and not fight with it. I'd rather spend my time building than waste it trying to make wood comply.

I would caution against metal studs in a basement application as they will tend to rust if there is any moisture, running wiring can be more difficult than with wood and hanging anything off the walls in the future is more difficult. Better to use the blue treated wood that is mold resistant, insuring that your wood is installed with appropriate vapor barriers.

Fair point... even galvanized isn't impervious. I am certainly leaning back towards wood, I just need to find a place that stocks a good batch and is willing to deliver.




Looks like I may be in the basement this evening getting some rough measurements on how many sticks I'll need. Best to get it all moved in as summer starts rather than waiting for another winter like we just had

[Mike Null]

I would be in favor of metal studs. I've used 10' steel before with good success and have hung pretty heavy loads on them as well. I would imagine that your building code will require pressure treated base plates.

Don't forget sound insulation.

[scott vroom]

Dan, take a look at Weyerhaeuser Framer Series lumber: http://www.woodbywy.com/lumber/weyer...series-lumber/

It's their best grade of dimensional wood lumber. Warranted to stay straight. Wallbrook Mill & Lumber Co. near Baltimore can order it, takes 2 days. Don Hildebrand quoted me $6.53 per 10'. They're located in Cockeysville....probably close enough to deliver for a reasonable charge. Maybe you could find someone closer to your town.

As others have mentioned, make sure to use a PT base plate regardless of wall material used.

Edit: Don Hildebrand at Wallbrook Mill & Lumber emailed me that delivery from their yard to your town would be $30-40...that's very reasonable.