Who has the lowest cost laser cutter that'll handle 1/4 wood?

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'm not entering the Chinese vs Western debate.

The answer to the original question is: Do you want to be cheap or do you want to be reasonable? If you want to be cheap, go on eBay and buy the cheap "40w" laser. It will cut 1/8" material. The machine is universally understood to be a piece of crap, but it will still do the job, sometimes. If you want to be reasonable, you'll buy a 50-60W small stand alone Chinese laser or a used 25-35W Western machine. It will cost you $3-5k but that's what it costs to get the job done in a reasonable fashion. You'll run into problems here and there, but you went on the cheaper side and you'll have to cope with it.

It's unrealistic to expect to buy a laser and spend under $3k. I'd budget for at least $5k.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, I have a question, and this is out of pure ignorance on my part.. What is it that the Chinese machines couldn't do that yours can that made you lose 100K in jobs?

Very small text, 3 pt. lowercase, things like PCB masks out of mylar that's cut at .8% power, lots and lots of engraving very small things at high speeds, high quantity parts with holes that need to be very precise on their sizes, etc. Lots and lots of things. We have a fair number of things we do in the very low power range. Jobs that require a programmable Z movement in the middle of the job (which we do a lot of).

I don't see any of it as a debate on Chinese or Western. Who said it has to be either one of them? That's not my decision to make, I can only share my experiences with actual work we do.

People like Dave do use a lot of Chinese lasers, but if I understand him correctly, the vast majority of things he does with them in vector cutting, not engraving. Engraving is where the machines become VERY different.

Like I keep saying, I couldn't care less what anyone buys, but what I do think is important it to understand that a $4000 Chinese machine is NOT the same as a $25,000 Trotec, Universal, or Epilog. It's simply not apples to apples.

[Mike Troncalli]

Cool, thanks for an excellent reply, I do appreciate it.

[Bert Kemp]

Mike ,
I'm just referring to size and power. The OP is obviously concerned more with price and a machine that can cut 1/4 ply or acr, not with all the bells and whistles that the big 3 have. Also from what I've been reading here on the forum the big 3 aren't with out their problems either, mechanical or support wise. So from my stand point I got a great machine that so far has no problems and I get great Support from Ray and his crew at Rabbit USA , for many thousands less then what one of the big 3 cost.
Just curious Mike have you ever seen and operated a 6040 Rabbit, seen the construction and how easily it operates. I have seen Epilogs and ULS up close and personal so I know what they are and how they run and sure if I had and 10 or 12000 on top of what I paid for my rabbit and I was running a fast paced business I might own one.

Bert


Are you serious?

There is no Rabbit that's the equivalent of the "big 3" machines.

[Scott Shepherd]

Also from what I've been reading here on the forum the big 3 aren't with out their problems either, mechanical or support wise.

Count the number of issues with Chinese machines vs. Universal or Trotec problems and let me know how they even remotely compare to the problems people post daily with Chinese machines. How many posts have you posted where you're having issues, yet you continuously say that you'd had no problems?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Count the number of issues with Chinese machines vs. Universal or Trotec problems and let me know how they even remotely compare to the problems people post daily with Chinese machines. How many posts have you posted where you're having issues, yet you continuously say that you'd had no problems?

Chinese machine owners don't exactly have a 1800 number to call if they have an issue. If the big boys started charging for tech support, I'd expect the number of issues with other machines to increase.

I know I spent a lot of time talking to Universal about my new to me laser when I first got it. If I bought it from G. Weike, I'd be on here instead.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I have Western made, Japanese made and Chinese made

Western very reliable with excellent support
Japanese, makes western look like cheap junk
Chinese, be prepared for problems

Prices...you pays your money and makes your choice

[Clark Pace]

Chinese machine owners don't exactly have a 1800 number to call if they have an issue. If the big boys started charging for tech support, I'd expect the number of issues with other machines to increase.

I know I spent a lot of time talking to Universal about my new to me laser when I first got it. If I bought it from G. Weike, I'd be on here instead.

Actually Gweike does have tech support voice and video through skype. Sure you have to stay up late, due to the time difference. But I used my android video phone for tech support. Not sure about shenhui? Or redsail.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I was a big supporter of G Weike...until my email started filling up with unresolved problems

[Clark Pace]

I was a big supporter of G Weike...until my email started filling up with unresolved problems

I am not a fan of Gweike either, but they do have voice and audio tech support. But I will say. In just about every product made there will will be lemons out there. USA, German, China etc...

[dirk martin]

I should point out, that I'm also running a Compucarve CNC, which we all know are full of issues, and I'm getting along fine with that.
I will easily take the time for simple trouble shooting and repair, to save thousands of dollars.
I don't mind being very hands on.

[Dave Sheldrake]

People like Dave do use a lot of Chinese lasers, but if I understand him correctly, the vast majority of things he does with them in vector cutting, not engraving. Engraving is where the machines become VERY different.

Scotty is quite right, I have likely more Chinese made lasers than anybody here BUT they get used for brutal vector cutting at speed, for engraving? waste of time and effort, the beam quality compared to an RF system and Western optics just isn't there so for engraving I use either Japanese or Western made stuff (not that I do much engraving these days)

In simple terms, Western laser are superior to Chinese made in pretty much ALL respects, all you have to consider is

1: Do you need that better quality?
2: Can you afford or will your business model support that better quality?
3: Do you need support or can you rely on sporadic / non existent Chinese help lines?

Overall I have imported ONE Chinese machine direct.....never again!!, I've made a lot of mistakes over the years but thankfully I have learned from them and never made the same one twice.

Home country supplied Chinese works for me for cutting....for anything else it has to be Western or Western made components in a Chinese machine (such as SPI sources in Galvo's etc)

One pet hate of mine is my email that regularly fills up with problems from direct Chinese imports, they have a "Check this" sheet that once it becomes exhausted support just dies and the buyer is left high and dry.

cheers

Dave

[Chuck Stone]

Please don't take this wrong. But sometimes I feel that if I don't have a USA made laser your looked down a upon a bit.

I would modify that a bit.. more often lately, the people who really need a better machine but opt
to get the cheap machines on Ebay look down on US because we're fools for spending too much money.
The problem is that the people who buy those machines often don't understand enough yet to know
whether their purchase will actually do anything the need it to do.
When this happens, they lower their expectations till the machine fits their needs.
They have an emotional investment in the equipment.. they spent their hard earned money on it and
they WANT to love that machine. They HAVE to!

But as Scott mentioned, they'll come in and tell everyone how wonderful everything is with their
machine. And this leads others to believe that there is no value in buying the better equipment.
THIS will ruffle some feathers for sure. Especially with the number of people who use forums like
this and expect the users here to supply the missing tech support they saved money on.

At their most basic, you have a laser tube, a lens and a motion system. Watt for watt, with
identical lenses, a $500 machine and a $200,000 machine will cut the same material at the same
speed. So it isn't the laser beam that makes a difference.

But how long will the laser tube last? Does the lens coating come off when you clean it? Does
the software present the information in a way that you can understand? Does your motion system
sound like tank treads when it moves? Does it move smoothly?
(how are you coming along with those tetracontakaihexagons? Oh, those are circles?
Sorry, my mistake. )

There's a reason some of these machines cost less than 2% as much as others, and it isn't
98% stupidity on the part of the buyers. They're leaving something out. Something important.
And most likely a WHOLE LOT of important somethings.

But often the users don't know enough yet to realistically evaluate their pending purchase. So
they look at the only thing they do understand .. the money.
If someone told you that you could buy a brand new car for $479 (delivered) when other
people are paying $30,000, wouldn't you think there's a problem somewhere?

I don't really see people looking down on those who purchase imported machines. But I do see
less patience for people who have unrealistic expectations or those who want other people to
take up the slack for their own lack of research. And almost no patience for those who seem to
laud it over others how much money they saved and how foolish the rest are for spending so
much money. It's like watching someone speeding down the highway flipping the bird to all the
other drivers when the rest of us know that a half mile ahead is a speed trap..

[Bert Kemp]

Chuck how true that last statement is. When I was home last summer I was staying in Campton,NH going up 93 from Plymouth to Campton on My bike both sides of the northbound lane has these big lime green Triangle signs 3 evenly space about 50 ft apart on each side that say (STATE TROOPERS AHEAD) speed limit is 70 I'm going 75 and the flatlanders (Chuck knows who I mean) are passing me like I'm standing still. Well around the next bend here's a NH State Trooper standing in the middle of the highway pointing at cars to pull over and 6 chase cars lined up in the break down lane. I can't for the life of me figure these idiots out. Hey heres a 45 point it at your head and pull trigger. Gessh Caution they live among us

I would modify that a bit.. more often lately, the people who really need a better machine but opt
to get the cheap machines on Ebay look down on US because we're fools for spending too much money.
The problem is that the people who buy those machines often don't understand enough yet to know
whether their purchase will actually do anything the need it to do.
When this happens, they lower their expectations till the machine fits their needs.
They have an emotional investment in the equipment.. they spent their hard earned money on it and
they WANT to love that machine. They HAVE to!

But as Scott mentioned, they'll come in and tell everyone how wonderful everything is with their
machine. And this leads others to believe that there is no value in buying the better equipment.
THIS will ruffle some feathers for sure. Especially with the number of people who use forums like
this and expect the users here to supply the missing tech support they saved money on.

At their most basic, you have a laser tube, a lens and a motion system. Watt for watt, with
identical lenses, a $500 machine and a $200,000 machine will cut the same material at the same
speed. So it isn't the laser beam that makes a difference.

But how long will the laser tube last? Does the lens coating come off when you clean it? Does
the software present the information in a way that you can understand? Does your motion system
sound like tank treads when it moves? Does it move smoothly?
(how are you coming along with those tetracontakaihexagons? Oh, those are circles?
Sorry, my mistake. )

There's a reason some of these machines cost less than 2% as much as others, and it isn't
98% stupidity on the part of the buyers. They're leaving something out. Something important.
And most likely a WHOLE LOT of important somethings.

But often the users don't know enough yet to realistically evaluate their pending purchase. So
they look at the only thing they do understand .. the money.
If someone told you that you could buy a brand new car for $479 (delivered) when other
people are paying $30,000, wouldn't you think there's a problem somewhere?

I don't really see people looking down on those who purchase imported machines. But I do see
less patience for people who have unrealistic expectations or those who want other people to
take up the slack for their own lack of research. And almost no patience for those who seem to
laud it over others how much money they saved and how foolish the rest are for spending so
much money. It's like watching someone speeding down the highway flipping the bird to all the
other drivers when the rest of us know that a half mile ahead is a speed trap..

[Roy Nielsen]

Dirk,

How large would your largest items be? Need to know to determine approximate bed size.

Would you need to do any/much engraving or mostly/completely cutting?

How many items per day will you need to cut and/or engrave?

I lucked into a lightly used good sized G.Weike machine a couple years ago at a very good price. For my hobby use of mostly cutting 1/8" birch ply it has been pretty good; engraving is only so-so in my opinion.