If you could do just one premium plane...

[george wilson]

I don't mean how to teach someone to draw,I mean how to teach someone to DESIGN. That is the crux of the situation.

[Brian Holcombe]

George, I think it's an intuition. It can be developed upon, in my opinion, and refined.

My own experience with design is that as far back as I can remember I was designing something. I think I have a long ways to go, but it's been the major driver of my goals in life and has always been with me.

I'm sure you are one in the same, you create gorgeous designs and it would imagine have been doing so since grade school.

[Winton Applegate]

I will give a quick rather off in left field example of what I am talking about.
Perceived name brand and perceived high quality (in this case Craftsman tools).
verses
what I consider adequate quality (MAC and not in the photo because they are at work Proto and SnapOn) which is actually quite a bit above what people think of as high quality.

I grew up in awe of Craftsman tools. Man if I could afford a set of Craftsman tools I would know I made it. That was the sh____.

So

see photo
The top row of sockets are Macs. I bought those about the time I was speaking of when the vulture tools trucks would show up at payday.

Note how easy it is to read the size (metric) compared to the Craftsman.
The blue socket rack they are on is FAR, FAR, FAR superior to the dammed abominations the Craftsman sockets are on and the Macs come with the rack. The rack for the Craftsman costs very significantly and is poo poo. That MAC set is a pretty pricy set of sockets but WORTH EVERY PENNY in functionality and lack of piss me off ness.

Go ahead, try to read the size on the Craftsman sockets, now try it in poor lighting, upside down in the stripped unibody of an Audi with dirt in your eye.

Lastly the two Craftsman “breaker bars” at the bottom. I prefer to call them socket wrenches. People think these breaker bar things are super strong and can and should be used with cheater bars and big hammers to get stuck fasteners loose with.

I can tell you the broken one never saw a cheater bar OR a hammer and was treated with care and ONLY used by me. I am not all that big. I am pretty good at finding optimum leverage though so it cracked loose many a fastener with it no one else in the shop was able to budge without resorting to a rattle wrench. But I never felt I abused the broken tool.

None the less it broke from daily use, year in and year out in about four or five years.
I now use Proto and SnapOn breaker bars. They have enough better attention to detail in their design and construction that it is worth it to me to pay more. A lot more.

Yes they are polished more, and have a top shelf reputation but that isn’t why I buy them.
I buy them because I feel they are adequately made as REAL tools.
The Craftsmans are just not good enough.
Can you see what I mean ?

[Derek Cohen]

Just what is a "premium plane"?

Do you decide this on cost? On design? Materials? Performance?

I have a Stanley #604 that does almost as well as a Marcou BU smoother (which is THE best performer I have ever used), but I would not consider either of them spectacular looking designs (although the Marcou is built like a brick watsit).

Ergonomics are an interest of mine. If I were purchasing or commissioning a plane, this would need to be a significant factor. One of the so-called premium planes mentioned here (look at George's comments, with which I completely agree) looks to my eye to be very capable as a performer but horrible to actually use for any period of time.

Cost? That is so relative. I have a bunch of LV and LN planes and do not consider them "premium". Bloody good planes, still. Does one need more?

This is the thing - a premium plane to me is not chosen because one "needs" it. It is chosen because one desires it. Using this plane will bring pleasure, joy, appreciation, and satisfaction. A premium plane brings together style, performance, build quality ...

Other than George, whose work embodies all these features, one name stands out for me ... Konrad Sauer ...



Could do with a double iron, tho'

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Malcolm Schweizer]

No, I do not want a '34 Ford. My shoulder plane is not an old style. It is unique. This design FLOWS!!! How could it be said that it does not? And,it is comfortable to use.

The hammer heads flow. They are my own modern designs. The handle of this jointer flows. It is in the style of 19th. C. handles,but is definitely not a copy. It has more design features than other handles from the 19th. C..

I HAD to copy tools as tool maker,for use in the museum,but these are my own designs.

Lest this be described as chest beating,it is not. I am just trying to show some examples of good design.

You,of course,are free to make your own decisions. I just cannot agree that Lazarus's blocky parts screwed together can be said to flow.

Actually I chose 34 Ford because it also flows but to achieve a different look overall. I couldn't think of any modern car examples, because today's cars are so horribly angular. Didn't mean you were dated. I have admired your planes and everything else you've made. I also like that pair of brass knuckles with the wood trim. :-)

I am not a huge fan of the newer Lazarus planes with the mostly metal tote. The solid wood tote, however, I adore. I also love his use of contrasting metals and how he makes hard angles and soft curves unite. As for screwed construction, I thought they were pegged. I would prefer dovetails, but okay- pegs are fine. Screws may be a concern.

[george wilson]

That Sauer plane is excellent in design. Except for the cap screw. It is cut into 3 "layers",but without regard to where the knurling starts and stops. It would have been better had he used small concave straight knurls if he wanted to cut up the design like that.

Here is a good design for a cap screw that I made,and I am sure I have never seen it on an old plane. Yet,it smacks of the old,golden days of toolmaking. If you don't get that swell just right,it doesn't work well.

Sauer does something I also have done: He makes authentic looking early threads on his cap screw. I did not on this cap screw for various reasons.

[Winton Applegate]

For $1000?

Winton's Old Street Tools smoother.
No finer example of the plane maker's art.

I prefer to have something that is milled to the .001 of an inch and is made of metal

Jim,
and Chuck,

I will say that when I started putting the precision measuring tools (ground straight edge and Starrett surface plate and indicators) to the Old Street plane . . . I discovered that it was the most precisely made plane in my decent sized collection including the metal planes that I had fettled (including a LN #4 bronze).

"Milled" to better than one thou.
Extremely impressive; considering the plane was made in what I assume is more humid Arkansas and wound up here in dry as a bone Colorado.

[Winton Applegate]

I mean how to teach someone to DESIGN. That is the crux of the situation.

George,
Maybe you didn't administer enough dope slaps.

even after working with you for years they couldn't pick it up.

I am frustrated to hear that but not surprised.
I do wonder what goes on in the heads of most young people when put in a situation to soak up and take advantage of knowledge and opportunities and they don't even lift a finger.
I mean why are they even there ? A pay check ?
What a bloody waste.
Seems like being around people who have taste and ability at least a portion of it has got to rub off but some how they are not there enough mentally for that to happen.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I think the Lazarus planes are bizarre looking. He is a good craftsman,but not a good designer. I do not mean for this to sound hateful,it's just true. This is an honest opinion as a toolmaker. He does work pretty cheap for the effort he puts into them.

I would have to agree with George. Having never built a plane, I should not criticize, however, in this case I'm doing so in a manner to ask how a plane design evolves? Does the design evolve in reverse, starting with a .001" shaving (smoother) with criteria added to facilitate the use? Or is the design of a plane done in a manner to show of metal & woodworking skills, with results secondary?

[george wilson]

Winton,it is not that the apprentices were not willing to lift a finger to pick it up. Most of them were just not able to. I had a sculptor who was. She visited me a while back. I hadn't seen her in years. She brought a violin she had made in the 80's while in my shop. I was very surprised at how perfect her craftsmanship and sense of design had been. She continued to be an artist,and wanted to get back into violin making.

The apprentices worked very hard at making instruments on order. They got very good at that as long as they did not try going out on a limb and designing themselves. I had a few who could do that,though.

Malcom,I would never at the least compare my shoulder to a pair of brass knuckles,even in a joke. I am not allowed here to say how that judgement (?) makes me feel. I consider it one of my best efforts.

Note how the width of the bevels varies with the size of the curves they border. Wider on large curves,smaller on tighter curves. The stuffing squeezes out from between the brass sides,like an over stuffed ice cream sandwich which has been filled and squeezed together. These little details add much to the design.

Tony,you have good judgement. It does not matter if you have never built a plane. This is about having "eyes to see". You have them.

Brian,you are quite correct. I have been designing things since grade school. And,education and exposure to good designs have helped me to develop and refine my design skills. But,that seed had to be there to begin with. I used to trace pictures of sailing ships when I was a kid. Looking that carefully at their grace helped me along. Tracing something makes you look at the object much more carefully than just perusing something and turning the page. Gordon Grants book of sailing ships was my favorite back then. Several years ago I was able to obtain a copy for myself. When I look at it now,I am a bit less impressed,but it is still a great book,and an excellent learning tool. The ink drawings accurately portray early sailing ships.

[Chris Hachet]

I'd buy wood!

A grand at a sawmill would get a nice stash now, wouldn't it?

[Chris Hachet]

Just what is a "premium plane"?

Do you decide this on cost? On design? Materials? Performance?

I have a Stanley #604 that does almost as well as a Marcou BU smoother (which is THE best performer I have ever used), but I would not consider either of them spectacular looking designs (although the Marcou is built like a brick watsit).

Whatever you choose. I would like to add one unique plane to my fleet, but I am thinking that keeping the number of planes down, keeping them sharp, and adding only one or two more may be in the best interest of my woodworking.

I once owned a 55 Chevy two door post with a 350 and a Muincie 4 speed, blue and white....about as plane Jane of a hotrod as one would ever want to own. It was a spectacularly good car, and boy would it run....

But in the end it was a box on wheels and not all that unique. I will probably buy something like a #4 L-N Bronze, which will do everything I ask of it.

But just like I would dream of an Alfa Romeo Montreal coupe while driving the 55....methinks I will be still lusting after infills after I get a brown box from Maine...

[george wilson]

Derek,the Marcou miter plane is an interesting design,but not the most practical,I would judge. The angular end is not the most comfortable shape to push on,and the semi concealed adjusting screw head is not the easiest to access. Not that most miter planes have the most convenient end to push on by any means!! But,if you eliminate the protruding end of the blade,you have the opportunity to make the rear end of the plane more comfortable.



I like Sauer's handles a LOT more. They are traditional,true,but they are also just right. The shape of the body is simple,but the curves are just exactly right also. The front bun continues the curve of the side,and is quite graceful. It offers a good,secure place to put the thumb,too. The man can draw!

[jamie shard]

I the price of a two hundred dollar saw or a three hundred dollar hand plane... that is what they should cost.

We are very lucky to be able to "borrow against" the previous two generation's production. I think about that all the time when I find a slightly rusty $12 Bailey #3 at an antique shop or a $8 rip saw or find a old $50 Delta drill press on craigslist. It's almost absurd.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George

Many on various forums appear to confuse bling with beauty. There is less importance given to how one balances the parts.

Konrad Sauer has such talent for composition. There is true art in his pieces. This was present when he was making (which he still is) the Spier-type infill. I believe that he has come into his own with his own design (which I posted earlier). I agree with you about the lever cap screw. I suspect that this is a carry over from the more traditional infill of his. He needs to find one that reflects the new line.

Philip Marcous planes have a very different line. I am not fond of over-built, tank-like structures (such as the Lazarus planes), but Philip has an aesthetic that Lazarus does not. Here is one of Philip's later designs ..

Bevel Up

• 

Bevel Down

• 

Regards from Perth

Derek