Convex bevel a la P. Sellers

[James Lehr]

This is my thinking. Why do we spend so much time on sharpening and so little on design? To me the biggest issue facing us as woodworkers is what to build that is creative and unique and different, be it a barn, shaker table, or mandolin.

For me the reason I spend so much time thinking about and learning about sharpening is that I spent the first 40 years of my life either doing paperwork, research, school, or office work. I did use power tools at times but I hadn't even sharpened a knife "free hand". Maybe I learned about sharpening a pocket knife in the Boy Scouts using a whetstone but that was 30 years ago. I would love to spend time considering design and as my skills progress I am actually learning ways to not just reproduce or copy a design but also add embellishment or slight changes to make that piece "mine" but I'm learning something new every day.

In any case, I appreciate everyone's replies here. I didn't know it would be so hotly a debated topic. I am an amateur; I would enjoy being considered a craftsman but until then I'll continue to keep an open mind, experiment, and try new things.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I can't visualize fishtail skews.

Yes that's probably wrong but a fishtail is a double skew and if you hold it up in front of you, it's the equivalent of raising two fingers in a rude salute.

[Winton Applegate]

Everything everyone has said here is correct.
But
I disagree with you.

Boy did that save a lot of typing.

Ha, ha, when the first posts went up I glanced at the title and mistook it for a thread about cambering blades with those hollowed diamond plates. Or maybe just cambering the blades ala Sellers.
Glad I did.
Then I read somewhere that things were getting seriously out of hand over here.
I couldn't keep from having a squint at it after all.

All I can say is some people produce good work IN SPITE of their methods.

Some times "PRO" means "I am too busy trying to do this to make money to live that I don't have time to slow down and look at all my options"
or
My ego is so big and fragile that unless I "INVENT" my own method of doing this then I have failed in my own estimation of who I am.
or
They are seriously cheep and lazy and poor so the first hunk of junk they can borrow becomes THE WAY and once they can do better they . . .
don't.
or
___________
I could go on like this all night.
I do know I have watched "PRO"s do stupid counter productive stuff all my life.

I am glad I have had the leisure to try about every sharpening method out there and make my own choice.

[Tony Zaffuto]

The destination is hair popping sharp. How you get there is up to you.

[Noah Wagener]

I was trained to sharpen freehand at a constant angle in 1962. By the time Sellers was starting a few years later, I had no trouble keeping an angle and had a nice reputation for my edges. I have sharpened chisels and plane irons without a grinder for my entire professional career as a hand tool only woodworker.

It has been a long time since I paid much attention to an exact angle, but when I measured everything a few years ago for a forum discussion, I found that everything was within a degree of 30. And this evening when I checked 8 chisels, they seemed right at 30. It is kind of surprising because I do not think the exact angle is that important.

Of you just taking light cuts with a chisel it doesn't matter if the bevel is flat or concave or convex, as long as the very tip is a reasonable angle. However there are chisel techniques where in addition to cutting at the tip, the chisel also acts as a wedge, pushing tissue with the bevel. Here the flat bevel works best because it forms a nice wedge. Mortising is one time a flat bevel works best.

Warren, the flat bevel on a mortise chisel, is that the full thickness of the chisel? I have those English style pigstickers which are very thick and would be quite a large bevel. I think i have read to use a secondary bevel on those that ends a little above the thickness of the tool steel weld line with a shallow primary bevel. I think Derek even said something like 20 degrees.

I also kind of got the impression from David that using Arkansas stones was kind of impractical without using a real small bevel. I think he wrote that he hollow grinds and still does a secondary bevel as well.

And you have written that you never lap your hard and soft Arkansas stones. Have not found a mention of what you do with a Washita. Do you keep it aggressive? Is that the stone you typically go to when you notice a tool is dulling or do you use an India or grind first? Do you ever hollow grind?

You also told someone that bench stones were capable of lapping blade backs and they did not need psa sandpaper and granite plates. What stones did you have in mind? And was this just for the lapping of new tools or could they lap out pitted and convex backs? When is a door not a door? When its ajar. When is a chisel not a chisel? When it was bought on ebay, then it is an incannel gouge.