Convex bevel a la P. Sellers

[Chris Hachet]

This is certainly the case. It's easiest for me to simply know the angle I'm working, it removes my tendency to cheat by raising the back, something I do without a conscious intention.

Exactly why I use a honing guide 95 percent of the time....for an idiot like me with less than stellar muscle memory, honing guides are wonderful.

[Chris Hachet]

+1 on that!

For me it is a variation on the KISS method:

Keep it simple & sharp.

If what you are doing gets your blades to make fine shavings on end grain or leaves a flawless surface on face grain, then what you are doing is what works.

If it isn't working, then it is easier to determine the problem with just a simple bevel on a blade with a flat back.

jtk

This is my thinking. Why do we spend so much time on sharpening and so little on design? To me the biggest issue facing us as woodworkers is what to build that is creative and unique and different, be it a barn, shaker table, or mandolin.

[Chris Hachet]

I sharpen only freehand, and it works great for me, there is a learning curve to get very good at it, but for me it's a curve well worth going through. the convex bevel makes more sense for freehand sharpening that a flat bevel, and you can control the bevel shape very well with some practice. I also don't round it just for the sake of rounding it, I start pushing around 30 and drop my hand to give "clearance" so the bevel never gets steeper than I want. I also avoid the temptation to lift my hand so I sharpen most tools at a known "muscle memory" angle which I test and check to insure I'm learning the angles correctly.

I will often hollow grind thick plane irons and then freehand normally with a convex bevel over that. chisels are not hollow ground except for mortise chisels that have a 20-25 primary and a 35 or so secondary.

Again, a hollow has been the turning point for me...I can get good freehand results with a Hollow grind.

[Chris Hachet]

Mr. Sellers isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have lessons of value for me to learn.

jtk

I try to learn from everyone...but I find the most helpful thing to be making mistakes by myself in my own shop and then finding a way to develop a new method of work to overcome them...

[Brian Holcombe]

This is my thinking. Why do we spend so much time on sharpening and so little on design? To me the biggest issue facing us as woodworkers is what to build that is creative and unique and different, be it a barn, shaker table, or mandolin.

Personally I spend a great deal of time on design. I think it's important to create a subconscious library of ideas through traveling and research. I've been working out the details of an upcoming project in my mind and sometimes I find that the solution I've derived is similar to something buried in the pages of one of my books read years prior. They evolve to become my own after I work out the specifics.

This happens more with architectural details then furniture for me, since I'm much more aware with regard to furniture, but the process is similar.

[Chris Hachet]

Personally I spend a great deal of time on design. I think it's important to create a subconscious library of ideas through traveling and research. I've been working out the details of an upcoming project in my mind and sometimes I find that the solution I've derived is similar to something buried in the pages of one of my books read years prior. They evolve to become my own after I work out the specifics.

This happens more with architectural details then furniture for me, since I'm much more aware with regard to furniture, but the process is similar.

This in my mind is what makes one a "real woodworker...."

[Brian Holcombe]

It's been a tough topic to sustain on the board, but I think there is some basic interest. I wouldn't mind attempting another go-round with it, specific to neander-method.

[Chris Hachet]

It's been a tough topic to sustain on the board, but I think there is some basic interest. I wouldn't mind attempting another go-round with it, specific to neander-method.

New thread started...

[Jim Koepke]

what is the proper angle merely demonstrates the point that the actual primary bevel angle isn't really all that important.

The actual measurement of the degrees of the bevel isn't important.

My guess is a century or two in the past the apprentice learned the skill of sharpening from those in the shop who learned many years before when they were an apprentice and so on ad infinitum.

Though it is my opinion different bevel angles are better for some jobs than others. It is likely something that isn't just my opinion. Different planes have different blade bedding.

I like a very low angle for paring the end grain of pine. A steeper angle is used on a mortise chisel.

Whatever your bevel angle, whatever your means of getting it doesn't matter if it is working for you.

As mentioned in the past, I do not intentionally use a secondary bevel on any but a few of my blades. When I think a bevel is becoming convex, it gets a new grind.

jtk

[Tom Stenzel]

For me it is a variation on the KISS method:

Keep it simple & sharp.

If what you are doing gets your blades to make fine shavings on end grain or leaves a flawless surface on face grain, then what you are doing is what works.

If it isn't working, then it is easier to determine the problem with just a simple bevel on a blade with a flat back.

jtk

Jim, such advice is an anathema here. Endlessly long discussions are what makes the 'net what it is.

If all the members went to their shops and just did what works, there would be 5 posts ever other year here at SMC .

After a year and a half of chemo left my fingers numb, freehand sharpening for me ultimately turned into an act of vandalism. I heard a sigh of relief from all my chisels and plane blades when I brought an eclipse style guide home.

What works for me may or may not work for anyone else. It doesn't work all that swoft for me either but there it is.

I picked up a few things from watching Paul Sellers on youtube. He could have done a better job on sharpening scissors. Leaving them drawfiled doesn't make it when cutting cloth.
-Tom

[Chris Hachet]

Jim, such advice is an anathema here. Endlessly long discussions are what makes the 'net what it is.

If all the members went to their shops and just did what works, there would be 5 posts ever other year here at SMC .


-Tom

Maybe not quite that bad but yes, we tend to over analyze things..

[Matthew N. Masail]

I have never ever measured the degree of a bevel in my life. I think too much is being made of it,really. For hardwoods you use a more blunt angle than for soft woods. My tools work just fine. Never used a sharpening jig. They are a bit convex. So are the cutting edges of Japanese swords,famous for their cutting ability,only convex on BOTH sides!

I have all kinds of tools for measuring accuracy to very close tolerances. Perhaps I should get out a Starrett vernier angle gauge and check them.

Thanks George. your post in the bottom line practical truth.

[ian maybury]

Mr Sellers must be very pleased at the amount of interest in his stuff that he's managed to stimulate….

[Chris Hachet]

Mr Sellers must be very pleased at the amount of interest in his stuff that he's managed to stimulate….

He really is a respectable crafts person. I like his approach in many ways.

[lowell holmes]

Wow! ! !

This string is bouncing all over the place.

I can't visualize fishtail skews.

I do have LV skews which are seldom used. I do use the LV detail chisels frequently though.