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Thread: 1/8" chisel

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce View Post
    At sizes this small, I've used a sharpened jewelers screwdriver. (With a fine stone nearby for lapping as needed). Unless you're using this all day long, a small chisel like this is a great place to go cheap. I really agree with Dave's suggestion.
    Whatever is used can be short, too. Stouter behind the ground part and delicate at the ground end.

    It's not really a place in chisel-dom that I'd spend much money, because the chisels will never do heavy work like a 1/2 or 3/4" chisel might.

  2. #17
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    What an interesting collection of ideas, which goes to show that there will always be a variety of opinions and rarely only one.

    I would like to emphasise that a 1/8" chisel for dovetailing have minimal lands. This does make it easier to clean up narrow tails where it is not possible to skew the chisel into the sidewall.

    For those wishing to convert a chisel to minimal lands, you can grind it to this shape. A steady hand is needed if you do not have a jig. I have done it both ways.

    Here is an example of a jig ..



    If starting completely from scratch, HSS is a good choice of steel since you can grind it and not worry about the temper.

    Ideally, you will want the 1/8" chisel to have a shorter blade since this size will flex more.

    If one is choosing by steel, The Veritas PM-V11 is a good chisel as the handle is excellent as well for paring. The Koyamaichi is a good choice for ultra durability, but it best used with a gennou. I am not sure how fine their lands are since mine was a custom construction by Mr Koyama ..


    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    I am not sure how fine their lands are since mine was a custom construction by Mr Koyama ..
    The ones sold by LV have very fine lands. They will cut you at the sides.

  4. #19
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    An inexpensive 1/8" chisel could be made by grinding the teeth off a small worn out vintage saw file (god knows what the steel is in modern sw files). Probably only need to grind it back an inch. The shape is already there, with zero lands. Caution = the edges will be razor sharp after grinding - BE WARNED. A good idea to run a stone down the edges after grinding. Files were hardened to 62Rc or so and retain an edge quite well.

    Cheers
    Peter Evans

  5. #20
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    It has little to do with what specialised chisels you possess than your tenacious attitude to do a good job. When you consider the quality and skill of woodworkers 300 years ago you'll understand that tools are the least of your hurdles when it comes to producing work that you're satisfied with. I guess if you're determined to cut DT that are 1/8 wide then you'll need a fairly narrow chisel but you certainly won't need a LN or any other overly priced maker's product to achieve good results - all you're trying to do is clean up the joints.
    Last edited by Brian Ashton; 01-16-2015 at 11:00 AM.
    Sent from the bathtub on my Samsung Galaxy(C)S5 with waterproof Lifeproof Case(C), and spell check turned off!

  6. #21
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    Thanks, Brian. With due respect, I'm pleased with my own tenacity and attitude in this hobby. My issue is that I simply cannot make narrower pins than 1/4" base without a smaller chisel. I want to be efficient in my choice so that I'll be able to spend more time practicing and less time buying. I've gotten great info here, and approaches I had not considered before (like Koyamaichi).

    I'm not inclined to make my own tool, but appreciate the suggestion. I've practiced enough that I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking for.

    I have a hybrid approach to cutting dovetails: I bandsaw the tails, and then nibble away at the waste with the bandsaw and then finally clean up with a chisel. This method works for me. However, nibbling conservatively with a bandsaw tends to leave more meat at the bottom of the tail than a coping saw would. Hence, there is some amount of paring/clean up at the bottom of the tails that I have to do. So, edge retention is nice to have here.

  7. #22
    Years ago, I wanted to inlay an equilateral triangle, side 5mm.

    Realizing that 59 degree edges would be useful, I made a small chisel out of a jigsaw blade.

    It worked really well and could even be tapped with a small hammer.

    best wishes,
    David

  8. #23
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    Even if you cut the waste with a coping saw you will need to pare to the line, so the need is there.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Thanks, Brian. With due respect, I'm pleased with my own tenacity and attitude in this hobby. My issue is that I simply cannot make narrower pins than 1/4" base without a smaller chisel. I want to be efficient in my choice so that I'll be able to spend more time practicing and less time buying. I've gotten great info here, and approaches I had not considered before (like Koyamaichi).

    I'm not inclined to make my own tool, but appreciate the suggestion. I've practiced enough that I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking for.

    I have a hybrid approach to cutting dovetails: I bandsaw the tails, and then nibble away at the waste with the bandsaw and then finally clean up with a chisel. This method works for me. However, nibbling conservatively with a bandsaw tends to leave more meat at the bottom of the tail than a coping saw would. Hence, there is some amount of paring/clean up at the bottom of the tails that I have to do. So, edge retention is nice to have here.

    What I was trying to say, and sorry I have a tendency to be vague, is that for the most part all you're wanting a 1/8" chisel is to slice and cut a bit of wood fibre that is left over after you cut the dovetail. You don't need a specialised, or penultimate chisel to do that. That's where I say you don't need a LN or any other high end chisel to do that. A basic 1/8 chisel that is well sharpened will do more than enough.
    Sent from the bathtub on my Samsung Galaxy(C)S5 with waterproof Lifeproof Case(C), and spell check turned off!

  10. #25
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    My 1/8" Chisel is an objet d'Art, as I have no proof of it's merit as a chisel by virtue of use.

    So of course it was important that it be fancy.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #26
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    I had never made dovetails with pins as small as an eighth, but this thread has inspired me to. I woke up to a couple of old Marples chisels to pay for on ebay. Average price was $9.50 including shipping. I was kind of surprised that no one bid against me. I expect the CBN wheel should make quick work of the modification.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilton Ralphs View Post
    Dave, are you saying you don't expect the Veritas V11 chisel to be as good after your experience with the Block Plane or the other way round? Prashun: Lee Valley also sells another Veritas product that you may want to look at. Dovetail-Style Chisel, 1/8" 05K04.52 <img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=304341"/>
    Hilton:
    You are correct - I can't imagine the LV PM-V11 chisels faring less in performance than my LN A2s.
    The PM-V11 metal is very durable. Rob Lee and crew did their homework - I want to buy a couple of the PM chisels, but can't justify it at this point.

    Thanks for pointing out my incomplete thoughts.

  13. #28
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    I keep forgetting to take a picture of my 1/8" Buck Brothers socket chisel. It works quite well for cleaning out blind dovetails.

    I haven't made a lot of the skinny pin dovetails where it would be the only chisel to fit.

    Looking at completed listings on ebay it seems the prices are all over the place. Looks like the socket chisels are more desirable. One tang style without a handle went for $12.45 with shipping.

    One rather long socketed example went for $88.15 with shipping.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #29
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    Well noted. Thanks. Now you have me thinking about going cheap here and saving up for a thicker bladed pmv11 for other tasks. Thanks.

  15. #30
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    I have three chisels of the type I believe you are interested in Prashun. My chisels are 1/4" LV Koyimachi "dovetail, 3/16 Veritas Pm-V11 and a 6mm Ouchi Yama-ari-nomi (Stew's new design). With 6 or more German Shepherds and a few smaller dogs, frequently running through the house I tend to build my furniture and cabinets a little more robust. The difference in the lands and tops of these three chisels is very interesting. I tried to get a picture to post but I could not frame anything that illustrated the difference via a photo.

    The LV Koyimachi has the steepest sides/lands. As a result of the design both sides and the top edge of the chisel are relatively sharp, not comfortable to grip/touch but providing the maximum clearance. The Veritas PM-V11 has some angle to the lands but much less than the Koyimaichi. The LV design produces a top that has a good size flat section that a finger can rest comfortably on. The Ouchi has lands/sides that are less radical than the Koyimachi but steeper than the PM-V11 blades. An interesting design feature on the Ouchi's is the top of the chisel, the flat section, is tapered as a result of the tapered sides I believe. The taper runs front to back. The result is the front end of the chisel blade has a comfortable place to rest a finger while the back tapers to a more narrow profile.

    I think Stew, Tools From Japan, went to school on the better designs and came up with something he thought might be the best compromise. Stuart may be able to order that design from Koyimachi or Ouchi, not sure. I am very happy with the four Ouchi Yama-ari-nomi I bought. The taper to the lands on the sides of these chisels does not stand out much on the larger chisels. I'm not sure if a little more taper was used on the smaller blade sizes to retain that flat front section. Certainly it is easier to see on the chisels with smaller tops. I just checked Stuarts web site. Apparently he just put the Yama-ari oire-nomi up recently, so there are pictures available under the Ouchi Chisel section. I think Stuart was slow putting up pictures as he has experienced some issues with makers selling his designs to other vendors. Look at the smaller chisels, the various tapers and land angles stand out better.

    I do not have the skill set or experience with the Ouchi Yama-are blade design to suggest that it is superior. I just thought posters might be interested in this design and how it relates to the popular Koyimachi and Veritas designs.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 01-19-2015 at 10:05 AM.

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