Garage Shop Wall

[Rey Johnson]

Hello Everyone. This is probably only my second or third post here, but I read the forums almost everyday.

I have a single car garage shop that I work from. My tool arsenal has been growing rapidly, a whole list of Festool tools and now a Delta bandsaw and drill press.

Everything is or will be mobile due to my space constraints. I have great visions for my little space here. I've already won the car/garage battle with the LOML, so my space is dedicated to my shop.

I need to OSB or some other sheet to my concrete garage walls. I am thinking about fastening 2x4s to the concrete and then fastening the OSB to the 2x4s.

I have attached a picture to better illustrate what I am thinking. Also, should I be concerned with drilling so many holes into my garage concrete wall to fasten the 2x4s? The garage is external but connected to my house.

Most of the threads here seem to indicate that OSB is the way to go, cost wise. Before reading thru some of those threads, I was thinking of white melamine.

I can't find any threads where anyone has used melamine for this purpose. Would that be because of cost, or might there be another reason for not using melamine?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Frank Hagan]

Using "furring strips" is a common way to put a finished wall over block; usually they are 1 x 2's, but there's no reason you couldn't use 2x4's (except for cost and increased difficulty!) You might Google for that topic and see if you get hits from people who have done exactly what you are planning.

Melamine is probably pretty expensive, and I'd also be concerned about the moisture issue. You're above ground, but usually melamine is on either MDF or particle board, and neither one of those works well in contact with floors if there's a chance of water getting to them. In my garage, when it rains, I do get some moisture at the ground level. I have my vertical stock on a small platform for that reason.

I would use drywall for just a smooth, "appearance" wall; its relatively inexpensive, and works well. OSB or exterior plywood would probably be a good choice too, with the added advantage that you could mount directly to it anywhere along the wall (especially if you have 5/8 or 3/4" ply.)

[Lee Schierer]

Personally, I've never had good results using OSB for much of anything that was supposed to last for a long time. It seems to be very damp intollerant and if it gets wet, its history.

Why not put up pegboard and make the wall useful for mounting tools and jigs. You can still hang cabinets to the 2 X 4's. I would mount the @ X 4's to the wall with Tapcon screws. They hold tight and are fairly easy to install. You will need a hammer type drill to put the holes in your concrete blocks though.

Lee

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Rey...Welcome to the Creek!

I installed 1/2" CDX on the wall of my new shop. I will still probably use a French cleat system to hang cabinets when I get to that phase!

[Tim Lindgren]

Planning for any insulation? Such as pink polyboard? Polyboard glued to the wall, then sandwitch 2x studs flat, with R11 batts would give allow for a year-round shop. (with a space heater)

OSB would work... T-111 would look nicer (its basically 1/2" ply with slots cut into it to look like T&G panelling). Maybe a mix of T-111 and Pegboard?

If cost is a serious concern... 1x2 furring strips and drywall would be the cheapest route.

[Tim Lindgren]

Oh, and about drilling the holes into the wall... It wont hurt anything. dont even worry about it. I would use construction adhesive - It has a good strong bond to open-pore concrete block. Or if using the polyboard... use anchors to pull the 2x and the polly tight against the wall.

Dont forget to add a few recepticals before putting the wall up! You'll probably need em.

[Rey Johnson]

Thanks for the quick replies.Drywall is not a consideration at this point, because I plan to hang as many things as possible.

I was considering OSB so that I could fasten as many things as I needed. The T-111 option seems very nice. Cost is not the utmost concern, but I am not looking to pave the wall with gold .

I think that I will go with either the OSB, CDX or the T-111 for the wall.

I am more concerned with the walls growing in on me too much. I plan to attach the 2x4s to the wall with the 4 inch side mating to the wall. I want to save as much actuall work space as possibe, even if we are talking about just a few inches. Could I even get away with something thinner than 2x4?

As for insulation, I do hope to get some type of insulation between the 2x4s. The cold temps in the garage last winter, even with a space heater, kept me out of my garage .

I plan to look into a heating solution, after I get things a bit more organized. Hopefully before it gets to cold again.

Thanks for the responses.

Rey

[Chris Padilla]

Rey,

I see you are in "Picksburgh" and so you obviously have temperature issues to deal with so insulation should probably be high on your list to maintain a smaller gradient of temperature change in your garage!

Now it kinda stinks but insulating correctly will cost you a perimeter loss of about 3.5-4" all aorund the garage walls but unfortunately, you need that space to fit in the 2x4 R-13 batts as suggested by Tim. I guess it all depends on how you insulate and how you mount the wood studs to the concrete blocks.

Once you've figured out the insulation/stud issue, then you can think about what material you want to put on the wall.

When I redid my garage, I gutted it, insulated it, and then paid someone to hang drywall and mud/tape. Drywall was the choice for me due to cost and to meet fire-code.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for the quick replies.Drywall is not a consideration at this point, because I plan to hang as many things as possible.

I was considering OSB so that I could fasten as many things as I needed. The T-111 option seems very nice. Cost is not the utmost concern, but I am not looking to pave the wall with gold .

I think that I will go with either the OSB, CDX or the T-111 for the wall.

Drywall is probably the cheapest option but maybe not when you consider the extra step of mudding/taping. If you mark your studs, drywall shouldn't cause you too much concern. I dunno about everyone else but the OSB I've seen out here (7/16" thick) was 3x the cost of 1/2" drywall.

I am more concerned with the walls growing in on me too much. I plan to attach the 2x4s to the wall with the 4 inch side mating to the wall. I want to save as much actuall work space as possibe, even if we are talking about just a few inches. Could I even get away with something thinner than 2x4?

As for insulation, I do hope to get some type of insulation between the 2x4s. The cold temps in the garage last winter, even with a space heater, kept me out of my garage .

I plan to look into a heating solution, after I get things a bit more organized. Hopefully before it gets to cold again.

Thanks for the responses.

Rey

I hear you about the walls growing in on you. I wonder if you should go with furing strips (basically 2x4s ripped in half) and then look into some foamboard stuff or a sprayed insulation? If you are going to limit your insulation thickness, you'll want to get the highest rated one you can with minimal thickness. Pittsburgh is nasty in the winter and if you were kept out of the garage because of it and you really want to be in the garage, you should research carefully your choice of insulation. Is there any access to the cinder-block walls? Can you fill the cinder-blocks with anything that would work?? Can you drill holes in various spots in the cinder-block and fill them up? Look very carefully into insulating and consider all options...maybe seek some professional help.

[Rob Russell]

Rey,

I wouldn't sweat the loss of 4" of shop width. What I would do:

• Coat the concrete with a moisture blocking paint like Drylock (to slow down moisture bleeding into your shop space).
• Frame the walls with 2x4's, normally. That gives you space to install normal receptacle boxes in the walls. Insulate with R13 in the walls.
  I'd frame the walls so they are flat and stand them up rather than trying to follow the concrete. That way your walls will be straight and cabinets you mount on the walls won't have to conform to a wiggly wall.
• Check your local codes regarding wall covering. You may find that the wall surface has to be noncombustible because this is a garage. That would mean sheetrock. If not, 1/2" plywood is what I'd use. You can always paint the plywood white to brighten up the shop.
• I'm in CT and have weather similar to yours. What will be important is the ability to heat, cool and dehumidify your shop year-round. If you skimp on your walls, that will be much harder to do and you'll lose usefullness from your shop.

Rob

[Tim Lindgren]

If you skimp on your walls, that will be much harder to do and you'll lose usefullness from your shop.
Rob

Not to mention your expensive tools will RUST much faster without some form of climate control. Personally I don't like working with COLD tools. Too hard on the hands in the winter.

If you're committed to flat mounting studs to the wall, I would suggest:

- Use Treated studs. Always treated when wood/concrete touch. Use liquid nails to attach.
- The Drylock suggestion is excellent. Concrete block is inherently porous. Drylock will seal it, cut down on vapor leaks, and drafts.

- You can cut 1 1/2" extruded polystyrene board to fit in between the studs. 1 1/2" Owens Pink board as an R value of 7.5. Blue is R5. The White is R3. Use "Foamboard" adhesive to secure. (NEVER liquid nails on this stuff..it's caustic!) This will give you at least some insulation.

- Screw & Glue the wall material. Environmental changes are going to be in the extreme.

Oh yes..one last thing. you'll need GFCI breakers instead of GFCI recepticals. GFCI recepticals wont fit into shallow boxes, and are required by code in garages.

You sure that extra ONE and ONE/HALF inches of saved space is worth all this extra effort?

[Rey Johnson]

I am beginning to see the light. I just can't skimp on the walls. I think that standard 2x4 framing with the insulation is the way to go here. I will just have to swallow losing 4-5 1/2 inches from the one side of the garage.

I will certainly go with the DryLock paint.
The side of the garage that connects to the house is already finished. So I am really only concerned with the one side wall and the wall at the back of the garage.

Thanks for the suggestions of insulation as well. Rust and moisture have both been an issue for me. So I will get things done the right way, or try to anyway.

I will get the studs/frame up first, hash out the best insulation, then consider the best covering. So, off to Home Depot I go. Probably won't buy anything today, but will price the material there and also Lowes.

[Steve Stube]

I would only strip and cover it if it is to be insulated. Sorry but that is the only reason I would give up the space. If you are not interested in insulating (filling the block and external insulation may still be options) why not PAINT the block (white comes to mind) and use Ackerman Johnsons and/or plastic inserts for all your hang up needs? It works for me in my garage. I hung up a few horizontal 1" X 4"'s that made it easy to attach hooks for hangup tools with only a few attachment points to the block.

[David LaRue]

Fine Homebuilding has a article on dry / mold free basements that goes against the tradition furring out method. They used ridgid syrofoam directly atached to the wall and then put a false wall in front of it. No vapor barrier!

D

[Jim Becker]

I used 1/2 Studs (effectively a 2x2) to fir out the walls in my shop so I had some room for a little insulation and a vapor barrier before I put up the sheet goods. I just used masonary nails to put them up and the work went quick since the block isn't that hard.