Opinion of the Powermatic 3 or 5 hp shaper please

[Dan Chouinard]

I think it may be time to step up from router table to shaper. Primarily will be used for making door parts. Router table has served me well but look forward to using a power feeder. Want to buy new machine. Does powermatic make a good shaper? Should I get 3 or 5 hp?
Thanks

[Paul Incognito]

I have brief experience with the 5hp version. It made short work of the hand rail I was making. Seemed like a nice machine.
There's no comparison to a router table. After the 1st time I made raised panels on my shaper with a feeder I was ready to sell my router table.
Happy New Year!
PI

[ian maybury]

Another here that discovered relatively recently just how easily and cleanly a shaper will strip off material that seems very heavy work with a router table.

My instinct (as a definite non expert) without knowing anything about the specific machines is probably to go for the higher HP - likely to be cheap relative to the extra grunt.

Other considerations might be your wiring or power supply (amp limits), or that the machine is more 3HP than 5HP in terms of its general construction

[Paul Incognito]

I'm with you, Ian. Generally the extra horses are cheap.

You bring up another good point in the power supply, a 3hp motor can be run off a 20a circuit, while a 5hp needs 30a.

PI

[Mike Cutler]

Dan

Is this a shaper to be used for a business, or for home projects and maybe a little work for good friends. If the former, I'd go for a 5HP. If the latter, I'd go for the 3HP and put the $$$$ difference toward a power feeder and, or, the cutters you're going to need. I am absolutely certain that Powermatic makes a nice machine, that will do everything you would ask of it.

I just bought a 3HP Delta Shaper, 1988 vintage. For a guy working alone in his garage, it's way more than enough.

[Dan Chouinard]

Mike,
one man custom cabinet shop. Six years of steady work. Countless doors have been made with router table. Shoulders look forward to assistance.
thx for the feedback

[Mark Bolton]

If your talking cabinet doors and your on a limited budget Id say you could get by with the 3HP because your going to need a hefty amount to put towards a feeder, tooling, and if your making doors one of the highest things on the list in my opinion should be a DRO that reads to three decimal places. That means not one of the cheap wixeys. The DRO in general is a major time saver but for doors and a single shaper they really speed up the process. The accessories and tooling will dwarf the cost of the shaper in a blink.

[Don Jarvie]

Powermatic makes nice products. Since this is how you make your living get the 5hp and write it off. Even though your a one man shop it's no excuse not to have quality reliable tools.

[Justin Ludwig]

Mike,
one man custom cabinet shop. Six years of steady work. Countless doors have been made with router table. Shoulders look forward to assistance.
thx for the feedback

Don't buy smaller than a 5hp. I tried the 3hp route (pun?) and it wasn't worth it IMO. Once you make doors with a power feeder on a 5hp machine, you'll kick yourself for the last 5years of using a router. I made one set of doors with a router when I started my shop and that was enough for me. You'll need at least a 1hp power feeder if you're doing a lot of raised panels.

[Mark Bolton]

Whats your total budget for the package? Just my $0.02 but I woulndt ever pay the premium for the PM shaper if your going to stay in the import catagory. A shaper is a pretty basic tool and while the PM may have a few perks they really arent worth it in the import machine class. No idea but usually when people realize they will spend perhaps another grand on a feeder, easily a grand or more for a decent set of tooling for door making, and then $300 or so for a DRO if you opt for one, the cost of the machine starts to be looked at a little differently.

[Rod Sheridan]

I think it may be time to step up from router table to shaper. Primarily will be used for making door parts. Router table has served me well but look forward to using a power feeder. Want to buy new machine. Does powermatic make a good shaper? Should I get 3 or 5 hp?
Thanks

Dan, since it's a shop I would suggest a Euro shaper with a sliding table, wonderful for tenons or cope cuts, and a tilting spindle gives you great flexibility with respect to saving money on tooling.

I wouldn't reccommend the Powermatic, there are many more modern machines with much better spindles, fences, tables, guards etc. The NA machines really are decades out of date..........Rod.

P.S. I've had a shaper for 30 years in a hobby shop, don't own a router, I use the shaper and feeder a lot, it's a Hammer B3 Winner with outrigger.

Here's a link to a post of mine regarding making tenons on a shaper
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ns+on+a+shaper

[David Kumm]

If making a living with the machine, i'd do a little homework and rather than focus on hp, look at the quill assembly and spindle design of various machines. The long term performance and benefit of a shaper comes from the build of the quill and the ease of adjustment and quality of fence. With only one machine, changeover time is critical so a machine that sets up easily is huge. I've also seen shops use two lesser machines and set up the cope and stick cuts separately. Which ever way you decide, it is worth your time to understand what makes a good shaper a good value. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

If making a living with the machine, i'd do a little homework and rather than focus on hp, look at the quill assembly and spindle design of various machines. The long term performance and benefit of a shaper comes from the build of the quill and the ease of adjustment and quality of fence. With only one machine, changeover time is critical so a machine that sets up easily is huge. I've also seen shops use two lesser machines and set up the cope and stick cuts separately. Which ever way you decide, it is worth your time to understand what makes a good shaper a good value. Dave

What he said.........

Having recently switched from a Minimax to an obscure heavy weight industrial, I would do some research like David suggests and look around on the used market. I switched from a Powermatic 26 to the Minimax and was very pleased, and switching to the Unitronix I have now was a revelation. Size matters. Ironically the Unitronix was the cheapest shaper I have bought.

[Peter Quinn]

I don't own one, I looked at them pretty close a few years back, was planning to buy one when a used minimax popped up in my area real cheap, so I went that direction. I think the PM2700 is a pretty solid offering in the "basic" small commercial size range. The fence is good, it has some nice features like built in mobility, built in digital height gauge, aluminum fence plates with hold down accommodations. Its an update to their PM27 line which I have used quite a bit. The 27 is a good solid work horse for a lot of small shops, no frills machine that works well for cabinet doors and light molding work. They didn't always age well, I used a few beat up varieties that had developed out of parallel issue with the fences, or some chatter as the bearings wore from use at or beyond intended capacity, or slop in the height mechanism from who knows what that makes precise height adjustments more challenging. I've also used a nearly 20 year old PM27 in another guys mostly one man shop and it was kept in such good condition it hardly felt like the others I had used, real tight and precise.

Honestly, I think the decision to go with a shaper and feeder is ultimately more important than which shaper you choose. The tooling is probably the more important decision. Relative to your current indicated use, 5pc cabinet doors, almost any shaper 3HP and above is capable of delivering a decent performance. I prefer 5HP for the marginal added cost, easier at resale, and this is America where bigger is always better right! You may appreciate the extra power if you ever get into passage sized doors or molding work. For me it comes down to ease of use which is largely related to the fence. You don't make money fussing with a set up, you make money pushing wood through, so you want the set up time minimized. I'd look for precise tool less fence and hood adjustments, easy speed adjustments (if that is something you actually require), ease of spindle change. These are the places the cheap imports really fall apart. I've used a few at work that I wont name here, the fences are abysmal, the speed changes are absurd, changing a spindle takes an act of congress and some bandaids. The PM2700 has solved all these issues. The spindle change issue is a non event in many cases, I've seen shapers never get changed from 1 1/4". But sometimes in the small shop you go 3/4" bore to save some valuable funds, especially at the start, lots of guys evolve away from the 3/4" size once you learn how much smoother the bigger diameter cuts, others are very content with 3/4" bore. So its a personal decision, if you need different spindles, they should be easy to swap. The one issue they haven't solved is spindle speeds...the 2700 has only two speeds, 7500 and 10K, and thats pretty fast for a molding head or a big panel raiser. They should have put something in the 6K rpm range at least, so thats a draw back and a limitation if you get into bigger cutters, like over 5 1/2" diameter.

If you are going to spend close to $4K plus feeder on this purchase its probably a good idea to check out your options. That puts some more industrial used machines in range, not a choice for everybody, but definitely worth consideration. Most value priced used industrial tools require at least some work, cleaning or tuning. You trade sweet and time for lower cost. You sort of have to predict the future, will your range of work grow over time? Could you use a tilting spindle or is that a waste of your money? Will you use a sliding table, or is that a waste of space? Rod suggested the fully equipped modern euro shapers, I really like the versatility they offer but don't consider those options to be essential or their purchase a forgone conclusion for every wood worker. Sometimes a good basic shaper that spins a cutter is just as much as you need. I have a small slider on my minimax, it never gets used for cabinet doors, but for lots of other things I do it has proven invaluable. I can think of a few cases where a tilting spindle would have been a great help....but for basic cabinet work? You might actually forget its there. Before you make the purchase you might want to reach out to some professionals in your area and check out their set ups, maybe even find somebody with a PM2700 and see it run, at least go to see one in person at a vendor if possible, check out other options too. Hammer, laguna, jet, minimax, used industrial, etc.

[David Kumm]

Larry's Unitronix is also a two spindle machine. They show up for a decent price and if you have the room you can get two machines for less than the price of one new PM. Way heavier build too. Dave