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Thread: Last coat of Waterlox puddled up: what do I do now?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Tomball, TX (30 miles NNW Houston)
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    2,747
    Wet sanding is for final rub out. Wet sanding between coats can create real problems; like missed slurry/dust that gets trapped IN the finish, looks white not pretty.

    3 wipe on = 1 properly applied wipe-on coats.

    It sounds as if your are not using the proper technique to wipe-on the varnish. It may be because you are not thinning the varnish enough for a wipe-on application. You should thin the varnish about 50/50 with mineral spirits and then wipe in on like the kid wipes the table just before you sit down at the fast food joint.. wipe it on and leave it alone, no going back and forth or over the same area more than once, twice at the most.

    A 3' x 5' table top should take less than a minute to wipe-on a coat of varnish... a 2 or 3 coat set per night is best. I usually do a light scuff sand (dry) with 320 open coat sandpaper just before the last coat.

    With Waterlox I usually do 2 sets because it is a bit slower to become dry-to-the-touch than some of the other varnishes. Waterlox does not need to be sanded between coats unless it's been a couple of days since the last coat. Poly varnish MUST be sanded to get it to stick; not so with Waterlox.
    Last edited by Scott Holmes; 12-04-2014 at 11:00 PM.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  2. #17
    Scott, the op is using waterlox original non voc, which i take to mean original sealer finish. This is already thinned and is the right wiping consistency out of the can. Thinning further is what i strongly believe got him in this pickle. Are you suggesting that he should thin the osf further? I am respectful of your experience on this.

    sam, i use his technique of rubbing in subsequent coats. It does not give you problems if the coats are thin and if you give decent time to dry, like 8 hours or more. At the worst, rubbing more osf on top of soft osf will result in a draggy cloth, streaks, dust, and a dull, uneven surface -not bubbles.

    i hardly come out this strong on a topic, but i have had this exact experience when i started out with waterlox. Beating a dead horse alert: nix the ms. There may be other ways to apply the waterlox, but materials, not technique was the culprit here.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 12-05-2014 at 6:04 AM.

  3. #18

    Is sapele an oily wood?

    I just thought about this. If sapele is a wood with a lot of natural oil in it, then this could be the culprit. Is it?

  4. #19
    Hey Sam,

    The bubbles I referenced weren't still bubbles. The had "popped" but left tiny little barely noticeable rings in a few spots, but I figured that would go away as the surface began to build up. I always waited 48 hours or 72 between coats. I always felt it to make sure it felt dry, and checked for any dust contamination.

    Would that still cause issues? It's been cold here, which is why I waited longer between coats.

    It's already sat since Monday, so four days since I've done anything to it.

    BTW, really appreciate all the feedback here. Just trying to understand what may have happened so I don't run into problems again (hopefully!).

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    E. Hanover, NJ
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    443
    I could be missing something here, but looking at the photo, it looks like your problem is not bubbles as everyone is talking about, but a beading up of the varnish like the poster stated. Like a surface tension or contamination problem.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    mid-coast Maine and deep space
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Scott, the op is using waterlox original non voc, which i take to mean original sealer finish. This is already thinned and is the right wiping consistency out of the can. Thinning further is what i strongly believe got him in this pickle. Are you suggesting that he should thin the osf further? I am respectful of your experience on this.

    sam, i use his technique of rubbing in subsequent coats. It does not give you problems if the coats are thin and if you give decent time to dry, like 8 hours or more. At the worst, rubbing more osf on top of soft osf will result in a draggy cloth, streaks, dust, and a dull, uneven surface -not bubbles.

    i hardly come out this strong on a topic, but i have had this exact experience when i started out with waterlox. Beating a dead horse alert: nix the ms. There may be other ways to apply the waterlox, but materials, not technique was the culprit here.
    Agree that MS is not a friend to Waterlox and as for wiping on subsequent coats I was only trying to emphasize that the first 2 coats that the OP writes were liberally applied with a brush may not have been sufficiently dry to withstand the rubbing out (rather than merely wiping on) additional coats.

    Speculating on what might have gone wrong in someone else's process/situation is just that - speculating. I read now (below) in James's next post how long he waited between coats and that the "bubbles" had already popped (maybe I missed these details from the earlier read), anyway it surely sounds that the surface was contaminated early in the process. Now what - sand it off and start again wouldn't you say?
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Fiore View Post
    I could be missing something here, but looking at the photo, it looks like your problem is not bubbles as everyone is talking about, but a beading up of the varnish like the poster stated. Like a surface tension or contamination problem.
    Right. Definitely an issue with the last coating of varnish beading up and then drying like that. I think Prashun nailed that for sure, even though it's a mystery why it would happen since WL is a MS-based varnish.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    I just thought about this. If sapele is a wood with a lot of natural oil in it, then this could be the culprit. Is it?
    The first few coats went on w/no real issues other than the few bubbles (again, that popped and dried). So wouldn't that have sealed any oil issues? Plus, I wasn't thinking Sapele was that oily (nothing like Teak or Rosewood). People say it's a relative to Mahogany, though I don't really know if that's true. It's a fairly hard wood, harder than hard maple, but nothing like Cocobolo.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado
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    109
    I agree, I use a lambs wool applicator to apply waterlox. It loads up and puts down a fairly heavy coat. I coat from one end of a board to the other no stopping. I overlap each coat about 20%. 3 coats over all plus 2 or 3 additional on table top with high abuse.
    Jeffrey

  10. #25
    Well, looks like I have some sanding to do this weekend.

    oh well. All's well that ends well, and I'm determined to make sure this thing ends well!

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    ...Speculating on what might have gone wrong in someone else's process/situation is just that - speculating...
    Oh, but isn't that the fun part. Arm chair quarterbacks of the world, UNITE!

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Oh, but isn't that the fun part. Arm chair quarterbacks of the world, UNITE!
    lol. Well, I'd love for any of you to come inspect in person. But at least I've learned about the concept...as confusing as it might be...that MS and Waterlox don't necessarily play nicely. And all was fine until after coat 3, which had 10% MS added to the waterlox. The next coat beaded up like crazy. So it makes sense that this was the genesis of the problem.

    I'll keep you guys posted as I progress.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by James Dudley View Post
    ...this was the genesis of the problem...
    Would you say, "She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah" of mineral spirits?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Three Rivers, Central Oregon
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    2,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    I just thought about this. If sapele is a wood with a lot of natural oil in it, then this could be the culprit. Is it?
    The qtr sawn sapele I've worked with is not at all oily.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Would you say, "She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah" of mineral spirits?
    Ahhhh hah aha NO

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