computer/stereo in a workshop

[Glenn Howard]

Glenn,
Wouldn't heat be an issue? I have always thought that if something is powered by electricity, there is going to be heat generated. There needs to be airflow to dissipate that heat. The plastic bag will not allow any airflow. Seems like a big problem to me. After all the whole problem with dust is that acts as an insulator as it builds up on the electronic parts and doesn't allow heat to escape. The plastic bag is doing the same thing. Of course for 25 bucks, you can afford to replace the unit quite often. But then why bother with the plastic bag?

I was a little concerned about that as well, but as Jamie explained so well, for this particular device, it really does not generate much in the way of heat. And the plastic bag is very thin, and the speaker device fits very loosely inside the bag. The only contact with the bag really is the bottom. I've had it running for several hours at a time on multiple occassions and found no heat generation to speak of.

But your concern is a valid one. If you try this with a different device and/or a thicker, more tightly fitting bag, you would need to monitor it to be sure your experience is not different.

Sawdust entering a devise not only blocks heat from escaping, but it can build up on components and cause them to fail for reasons beyond just heat. Granted this is a cheap item, so why bother with the plastic bag. The device has that rubberized surface that would be a magnet for dust and would be extremely difficult to wipe off. The bag keeps it clean and dust free, which I have to believe will extend its life compared to leaving it exposed to dust.

[Larry Browning]

I don't think that I have ever even once been mistaken for someone being knowledgeable in this area. In fact my knowledge of the effects of dust buildup on electronic devices is primarily just rumors, hear say and just what makes common sense to me. So, can someone enlighten me about the adverse effects of dust on electronics other than heat build up? I ask, because my setup is an old home theater receiver that someone gave me a few years ago that is just sitting on a shelf in the shop. I blow it out ever now and then when I think about it. But maybe I should rethink this strategy and be a little more diligent.

Glenn,
So if heat buildup due to the dust would not be an issue here, and given the relative low cost of replacement, I would think that just the hassle factor of the bag would be enough for me to not mess with it at all.

This may fall into the same category of how I treat the computers I own. I buy cheap wal-mart varieties and leave them on 24/7 in hopes they will fail within a couple of years. That way I can feel justified in getting a new one every few years to keep up with technology. (It's an evil ploy on my part to get my way with SWMBO) If I had a high dollar industrial strength computer, it would run and run but would soon be outdated, and I would have a hard time justify replacing it, given it's initial cost. I realized this a couple years ago when my windows 2000 computer that I had built from really high quality parts just wouldn't die.

[Glenn Howard]

You are correct that the primary cause of failure from dust buildup would be the overheating caused by airflow obstruction.

However not all dust is created equally. Shop dust is much more likely than normal household dust to include corrosive elements that can also cause problems with electronics. Sanding through coats of various finishes and other similar activities add up to the fact that shop dust is more than just wood. Those corrosive elements can lead to oxidation and weakening of solder points etc.

As to the hassle, I only had to set up the bag method once and haven't had to touch it. I can turn the unit on with the bag on it.

[Larry Browning]

As to the hassle, I only had to set up the bag method once and haven't had to touch it. I can turn the unit on with the bag on it.

Whatever works for you is fine by me! I will say that my primary source for music in the shop these days is my iphone running Pandora. I can simply plug it into the AV receiver and am good to go. When the AV receiver quits I will probably invest in one of those cheap BT speaker boxes like you have, but I probably will just let it out of the bag so to speak and get a new one when it fails. I have found that treating electronic nicely just leads to me wishing it would die so I can get the latest latest thing. Technology changes too fast for me to want to spend top dollar for something that will last. I have the complete opposite philosophy when it comes to tools however.

[Larry Browning]

This thread got me to looking at these BT speaker boxes for use in the shop. Putting it in a plastic bag is not what I would call the optimum situation. So I got to looking on Amazon and found this. http://www.amazon.com/Cooligg-Waterp...tooth+speakers

Seems pretty reasonable. What do you think? Looks like it doesn't come with an AC adapter though. I wonder how loud they will go.

[Yonak Hawkins]

What do you think? Looks like it doesn't come with an AC adapter though. I wonder how loud they will go.

They're awfully tiny. I wonder if they'll put out enough sound for a shop environment.

[Pat Barry]

I don't think that I have ever even once been mistaken for someone being knowledgeable in this area. In fact my knowledge of the effects of dust buildup on electronic devices is primarily just rumors, hear say and just what makes common sense to me. So, can someone enlighten me about the adverse effects of dust on electronics other than heat build up? I ask, because my setup is an old home theater receiver that someone gave me a few years ago that is just sitting on a shelf in the shop. I blow it out ever now and then when I think about it. But maybe I should rethink this strategy and be a little more diligent.

Glenn,
So if heat buildup due to the dust would not be an issue here, and given the relative low cost of replacement, I would think that just the hassle factor of the bag would be enough for me to not mess with it at all.

This may fall into the same category of how I treat the computers I own. I buy cheap wal-mart varieties and leave them on 24/7 in hopes they will fail within a couple of years. That way I can feel justified in getting a new one every few years to keep up with technology. (It's an evil ploy on my part to get my way with SWMBO) If I had a high dollar industrial strength computer, it would run and run but would soon be outdated, and I would have a hard time justify replacing it, given it's initial cost. I realized this a couple years ago when my windows 2000 computer that I had built from really high quality parts just wouldn't die.

It is possible that some of your dust is conductive or has ionic content that could result in dendritic growth between circuits. Alll it takes is bias (voltage), an ionic contamination (wood dust), moisture, and time and you will have internal shorting of your electronics. First indication would be a loss of volume, for example, or possibly a tonal change, maybe only on one channel or the other. I doubt that it would degrade to be a fire hazard but who knows, stranger things have happened.

[Duane Meadows]

It is possible that some of your dust is conductive or has ionic content that could result in dendritic growth between circuits. Alll it takes is bias (voltage), an ionic contamination (wood dust), moisture, and time and you will have internal shorting of your electronics. First indication would be a loss of volume, for example, or possibly a tonal change, maybe only on one channel or the other. I doubt that it would degrade to be a fire hazard but who knows, stranger things have happened.

As an electronic technician for 35 years, I have never seen performance degradation from dry dust. Moisture? Yes, with or without dust! If the dust get thick enough to totally block air flow.. maybe, but even that is iffy. I've seen equipment so full of dust that you could not even see the components inside, and they still worked.

Electo-mechanical stuff(such as fans, cd/dvd players, etc), whole 'nuther issue. Stuff such as computers, with fans, tend to pull the dust into themselves, causing reduced cooling efficiency, but just blowing the dust out once in a while should keep them working(except for Larry, that would mess up his whole plan). Any thing with a cd/dvd unit has an optical lens that dust will soon cause an issue with. Many are plastic an I believe the laser beam burns the dust into the lens, requiring replacement when it blocks the laser beam sufficiently.

Speakers are another thing that dust can cause an issue with more because of friction, than conductivity! But sealed, non ported boxes should not be much of an issue, either.


Now put electronics in your spray booth? Good chance the fumes from many finishes will shorten the life considerably.

So in my opinion a radio/speakers, probably ok. CD/DVD, not so much. Computer, If cleaned once in a while, probably ok. Or if all else fails, Larry has a point... gotta keep current somehow

[Larry Browning]

So in my opinion a radio/speakers, probably ok. CD/DVD, not so much. Computer, If cleaned once in a while, probably ok. Or if all else fails, Larry has a point... gotta keep current somehow

You just need to be sure you have a good data backup strategy

[Glenn Howard]

As an electronic technician for 35 years, I have never seen performance degradation from dry dust. Moisture? Yes, with or without dust! If the dust get thick enough to totally block air flow.. maybe, but even that is iffy. I've seen equipment so full of dust that you could not even see the components inside, and they still worked.

Electo-mechanical stuff(such as fans, cd/dvd players, etc), whole 'nuther issue. Stuff such as computers, with fans, tend to pull the dust into themselves, causing reduced cooling efficiency, but just blowing the dust out once in a while should keep them working(except for Larry, that would mess up his whole plan). Any thing with a cd/dvd unit has an optical lens that dust will soon cause an issue with. Many are plastic an I believe the laser beam burns the dust into the lens, requiring replacement when it blocks the laser beam sufficiently.

Speakers are another thing that dust can cause an issue with more because of friction, than conductivity! But sealed, non ported boxes should not be much of an issue, either.


Now put electronics in your spray booth? Good chance the fumes from many finishes will shorten the life considerably.

So in my opinion a radio/speakers, probably ok. CD/DVD, not so much. Computer, If cleaned once in a while, probably ok. Or if all else fails, Larry has a point... gotta keep current somehow

I don't distrust your expertise, but I still have to believe that not all dust is created equal. How many of those dust filled devices that you serviced came from a shop versus a room in someone's home? Depending on what type of activities a person does in their shop, shop dust is more likely than not, quite different than your standard household dust, and is much more likely to contain corrosive elements. Why else do we use respirators and other such protection for our lungs? We don't need those in our living rooms. But you and Larry do have a point...if you're only shelling out $20-30 for an electronic device, replacing it if it fails in a couple of years shouldn't break the bank.

[Pat Barry]

As an electronic technician for 35 years, I have never seen performance degradation from dry dust. Moisture? Yes, with or without dust! If the dust get thick enough to totally block air flow.. maybe, but even that is iffy. I've seen equipment so full of dust that you could not even see the components inside, and they still worked.

Electo-mechanical stuff(such as fans, cd/dvd players, etc), whole 'nuther issue. Stuff such as computers, with fans, tend to pull the dust into themselves, causing reduced cooling efficiency, but just blowing the dust out once in a while should keep them working(except for Larry, that would mess up his whole plan). Any thing with a cd/dvd unit has an optical lens that dust will soon cause an issue with. Many are plastic an I believe the laser beam burns the dust into the lens, requiring replacement when it blocks the laser beam sufficiently.

Speakers are another thing that dust can cause an issue with more because of friction, than conductivity! But sealed, non ported boxes should not be much of an issue, either.


Now put electronics in your spray booth? Good chance the fumes from many finishes will shorten the life considerably.

So in my opinion a radio/speakers, probably ok. CD/DVD, not so much. Computer, If cleaned once in a while, probably ok. Or if all else fails, Larry has a point... gotta keep current somehow

Hey Duane. I don't doubt you haven't seen any failures from dry dust, but how many failures have you seen due to wet dust? Like I said, it takes a a combination of ionics, moisture, voltage, and time to cause a problem. My take is that wood dust is highly moisture absorbing and therefore if it collects on your electronics between points with voltage present it could create a failure. I have an old boom box in my dusty shop and its been there for years without a cleanout and without a failure - then again it might fail tomorrow. If it were a hi-fi (like we used to call them) , then I would be doing something to protect it.
h

[Duane Meadows]

Well, a couple of things, I have seen many failures due to spilled liquid, very few if any from damp dust. Many, many so full of nicotine and tar, that I wanted to wear gloves to even touch them, and even one or two that were in barns(to keep the cows content, yeah really!). Even in old tvs with vacuum tubes(not CRT's) where several hundred volts were present in even small signal circuits, damp dust never caused any issues that I can recall. Mice, roaches, and the like, yes.

High temp and power surges are the biggest issues for modern electronics. They operate at very low voltages compared to older equipment. If you are getting condensation on you tools, yeah the electronics may be in danger, otherwise, not so much. Think about it, any of the tools you have that have softstart, electronic variable speed, Digital readout, etc, have electronics in them. What is the difference? Most of these are not potted these days.

No, I would not put my radio next to my bench grinder, maybe not even my lathe(specially if you turn green wood, however again most newer lathe have solid state controls), or probably in my paint booth. Other than that, I really think we are making a mountain out of the proverbial molehill. Pat's boom box experience proves my point, and Pat, even if dies today doesn't mean it was dust related!

If you have enough moisture in your shop for the dust to absorb, you have bigger issues than just killing a radio or computer.

A little common sense, and I really don't see an issue. By all means, do what ever makes you comfortable, but I think we are really over thinking this.

[Tony Leonard]

I have a small office type stereo (Sharp I think?). I made a 1/2" MDF box with a frame door. I covered the door with speaker cloth. The back and side vents are also covered with speaker cloth. The door is hinged and has a magnetic latch. The remote works through the cloth. I've been using this setup for years and there has been no significant dust build up on the stereo. The speakers are not protected, but I blow them out now and then (carefully!).

Tony

[Kent A Bathurst]

My laptop is in a drawer of hte workbench, with a docking station. Wireless keyboard and mouse. Cabling to the flat screen monitor go out the side and up - up one of those "arms" thingies - to the flat screen. I can lift the monitor up and out of the way as needed, and move the keyboard and rat to an adjacent shelf.

[Richard Moran]

I got a stack on top of a 48" steel cabinet next to my work bench. Thrift store stereo receiver for my radio ($20), dish sat box, old 12" CRT/TV for football and racing. I don't mess with computers at home or in my shop after working on them all day, but I do keep my Iphone handy for taking a lot of pics. To be honest, I don't really watch TV while I'm working, but the radio is always blaring some kind of "somebody done somebody wrong song".