Cheapest way to go for proper dust collection?

[Patrick McCarthy]

I have to agree with Paul McGaha in post 13 and Glenn Bradley in post 34 and Ben Rivel in post 45- your health is worth the money spent on GOOD DC. Ironically, one of the early "any old thing will suffice" posts was from Kent Bathhurst, who used to frequent this forum and whom I miss, was both knowledgeable and then cantankerous -- - - last picture I saw of him was in another member's shop wearing an oxygen mask and pulling a green tank around. I assume his opinion might be different today . . .

Also, many people refer to the information on Bill Pentz's site, which is good, but seem to miss (or not emphasize) the reason he posted all of that information - - - his experience should make believers out of all of us.

Stay safe, breathe well, patrick

[Matt Mattingley]

For anybody starting out, dust collection it is a second thought.

But after time most (if not everyone) learn the hard way.

I did...

First I bought a shopvac.
Then a 1.5 horse power bag unit.
Then a cannister double blower DC unit (very similar to a shopvac with two motors).
Then I built the built the Pentz Clone.

It is almost impossible to convince somebody that the first machine in the shop should be a high-performance DC.

Maybe I’m wrong! Is there anybody here who has spent $2000+ on a DC, before they purchase their first $2000 worth machines?

[Bill Jobe]

To add to what Matt wrote, with no firsthand experience with cheap and Bill P., from all my reading it has become obvious (to me) that exhausting a DC outside is not only better air, but cheaper, as well.
His filterless 1800 is under $1500. Five hp.
Take a look at the competetion.
You'll find it hard to find a 3hp that is close to what Bill sells. It didn't take me long to realize, the Clearvue is worth careful consideration.

[Jim Becker]

Dust collection is one of the most important functions in a woodworking shop-it's a safety factor well beyond the obvious keeping clean thing. There is no "cheap and proper" solution, IMHO. Cheap compromises proper and vice versa. There are reasonably economical solutions, but what is "reasonably economic" varies with each person.

[Matt Mattingley]

To add to what Matt wrote, with no firsthand experience with cheap and Bill P., from all my reading it has become obvious (to me) that exhausting a DC outside is not only better air, but cheaper, as well.
His filterless 1800 is under $1500. Five hp.
Take a look at the competetion.
You'll find it hard to find a 3hp that is close to what Bill sells. It didn't take me long to realize, the Clearvue is worth careful consideration.

yes Bill, exhausting outside what filters might normally catch can be a good idea in some situations. In other situations it could be even more deadly.

Buildings that have natural gas/fuel appliances that are not considered high-efficiency with a sealed chamber’s or natural draft fireplace or airtight wood-stove, you could create a negative pressure in the building great enough to pull exhaust fumes back in. You might exhaust the harmful fine dust but drawing in smoke or carbon monoxide.

[Steve Reich]

Michael:

As you have probably gathered, there is a wealth of knowledge (and opinions) about dust collection. Since you are just beginning to learn about it, I recommend these two articles that are good places to start that I found very helpful in determining options and how to match method with machine and set up. Paul Mayer's "Creating Better Dust Collection" from WWGOA and "Dust Collection Demystified" from Fine Woodworking are better places to start than Bill Pentz. I also agree that a Oneida Dust Deputy attached to your shop vac will greatly improve the performance of your shop vac. I have done this, and it works really well with small portable tools like an orbital sander, biscuit joiner, jig saw, etc. Good luck with the new shop.

[Mark Inmon]

With the HF collector as a two stage with a Winn filter the only other thing to upgrade would be the motor and can't find a motor that turns over 3450RPM. Just thinking thin aluminum sheeting to build a roundish frame around the impeller and see if the HF motor could turn the bigger impeller as well as the small one. Just had an idea in my head and seeing if the group thinks the idea is valid.

Mark great idea, but wouldn’t it be even better... if you just took your machine out to the middle of a field, With wind beneficial ???

[Josh Kocher]

Thread resurrection?! 2014!?

DC is important! On the cheap? Can be difficult... but cheap is relevant I suppose... Shopping used, and patience helps.

Since we're all reminiscing...

I started with a used General 1.5hp bag filter and a trash can separator moving from machine to machine - way inadequate though... borderline useless.

I considered upgrading...
Add a SDD and canister filter?
Maybe a 3hp Oneida?

Then a used 2hp Oneida cyclone with more duct and blast gates than I'd ever need came along for a few hundred bucks. Sold the General for what I bought it for...

Performance difference is night and day. I have a small shop and simple layout.

Maybe a bigger shop will lead to a 3 or 5 hp in the future but patience and used will bring in the cheapest results...

[Matt Mattingley]

Dust collection is one of the most important functions in a woodworking shop-it's a safety factor well beyond the obvious keeping clean thing. There is no "cheap and proper" solution, IMHO. Cheap compromises proper and vice versa. There are reasonably economical solutions, but what is "reasonably economic" varies with each person.

It’s easy to preach what you have now, but what did you start out with? I started out with a shop vac, with 10” Dewalt contractor table saw.
Fast forward to the future...
I now have a 5hp bill pentz cyclone and a 5 hp 18”blade, sliding table saw. Sure, maybe I’m pulling 1300 CFM through a 4 inch port and +2000 CFM through a 6 inch port.

I’ve gone through the cheap compromises to end up where I am now. Economically and functionally work hand-in-hand. I would never expect anyone to spend $2000 on their first cyclones before they purchased any tool. In my opinion it’s just ass backwards.

My shop at work just spent +$50,000 on dust collection over the Christmas break. This is only for about 12 ports. Maybe if I’m down in that part of the shop tomorrow, I’ll take some pictures.

[Jim Becker]

It’s easy to preach what you have now, but what did you start out with? I started out with a shop vac, with 10” Dewalt contractor table saw.
Fast forward to the future...
I now have a 5hp bill pentz cyclone and a 5 hp 18”blade, sliding table saw. Sure, maybe I’m pulling 1300 CFM through a 4 inch port and +2000 CFM through a 6 inch port.

I’ve gone through the cheap compromises to end up where I am now. Economically and functionally work hand-in-hand. I would never expect anyone to spend $2000 on their first cyclones before they purchased any tool. In my opinion it’s just ass backwards.

My shop at work just spent +$50,000 on dust collection over the Christmas break. This is only for about 12 ports. Maybe if I’m down in that part of the shop tomorrow, I’ll take some pictures.

No disagreement...but for many of us, we started out with things like we did because we didn't know any better. I actually started out with a 1.5hp Jet DC with bags in a one-car garage shop. I bought it at the same time I bought some other Jet tools that were in my original stable. (Only the DP remains now) I think I owned a shop vac type device then, but I don't recall. It was about 1996 or so. Once I moved to this property, I bought an Oneida 1.5hp Cyclone...the one with the filter inside and later upgraded to an external filter and then a larger unit after buying my J/P. The value in these discussions is hopefully that folks who are new get "more aware" of the importance of dust collection and I think my statement that you quoted is helpful in that regard.

[Josh Kocher]

The dust collection path that many of us have gone down to get where we are costs money.

Turns out that it's cheaper to just buy the destination at the end of the path in the first place if you are committed to woodworking. Doubly so if you are buying new machines along your path and taking losses on resale/tax along the way...

Learn from others...
Buy once, cry once...
That's the cheapest solution.

[Ole Anderson]

I started with a $200 1 hp PennState double bagger and a flex hose. After reading here on dust collection and going through the Bill Pentz stuff, I was convinced that dust collection shouldn't be an after thought but a primary goal in setting up a wood shop. We need to continue to preach that to those that want the cheapest system out there so they have money to buy more dust producing tools. When I retired 9 years ago and had time I upgraded and went with a full blown steel duct system and a 2 hp Oneida cyclone and never had second thoughts. Correction, if I were to do it again I would have gone with the 3 hp unit as the specs are much better, although I am very happy with the direction I went. I get it, sometimes it is the cheapest system or no system at all. Just make sure it is for the right reasons.

[Peter Christensen]

Sometimes it is only the priority of funds. There is money for expensive trucks, SUV's, boats, jet skis, big screen TV's, vacations, cabins, motor homes, guns, jewelry, clothes,,,,, you get the idea. However when it comes to protecting the lungs there is very little money. It isn't the case for everyone but it happens often enough.

There I feel better now.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I read these threads and totally agree on all aspects of removing as much dust as possible for a wood cutting/sanding operation.

I sometimes wish I had found SawMillCreek before I started my serious hobbyist woodworking about 3 years ago.

I missed out on the knowledge of the Oneida and ClearVue systems until about 18 months after I bought my Jet Dust Collector from Woodcraft.

I very quickly realized that a single stage system was a lot of work keeping the bags empty and the filter clean.

I came across the principle of the two stage system and converted my small jet dust collector with the help of an Oneida Super Duty XL cyclone. I was working in my garage and had one two drops with about 25' of 6" plastic ducting. I never clogged up any duct or struggled to extract the sawdust of clippings from the tool.

When I moved to TN, I decided to use 5" metal ducting and now have about 45' of piping and a larger 55 gallon drum as my first stage. The bag on the bottom of the Jet has yet to fill.

But going back to the more professional systems, we are always recommend to get nothing smaller than 3HP and I've read and thought many times that this should me my next upgrade.

With that said, I recently switched out from a DW735 to a A3-31 planer. Although these two tools have the same width of cut, the A3-31 pulls the lumber through much faster and can also take a thicker cut.

I recently planed 1200 board feet of basswood, averaging 9" wide and 5/4" thick through the A3-31.

Where was all the shavings and sawdust? Inside my first stage drum from my 1.75HP system, admittedly if filled 12 55 gallant bags.

After this material was planed, ripped to size, I ran 600 linear feet of this Basswood through my moulding machine and made the louvers for my plantation shutters. Again multiple bags of shavings.

After these heavy cutting operations, there is no real visible evidence that I have just performed these operations.

So sometimes I think we scare people away from a practical home/hobby system that will be more than adequate for the majority of small workshops.

This is how my $600 system ended up. The addition was a $70 55 gallon drum and the Oneida Cyclone.

[Jim Dwight]

Chris,

Thanks for a good post. What is the amp draw of your DC (or rated hp)? It sounds like a great setup, and similar to what I am planning (I worked on running the extra circuit today).

Jim