Shop made tools forum - thoughts about moving the related threads from here?

[David Weaver]

Frankly, I'm supremely annoyed that we even have to have this discussion for the seven millionth time.

Ditto. I have the same indifference toward power tools, except I do use them from time to time. I have *zero* interest in getting on here and talking about them or fiddling with them beyond how they work out of the box, though - absolutely zero.

[steven c newman]

Hmm, PIP? That would be a Project In Progress? Maybe a way of showing a stage near completion of a Project? Or, Maybe a Project In Photos?


I have been doing my projects my way since the late 70s. Don't see a need to change much. I went from a large Pole barn shop with all kinds of power tools handy to a small, crowded Basement Shop I call the Dungeon. Gone are most of the big power tools, tain't any room for them. Need a long rip? 2 C clamps to hold a piece of 1x2 to the bottom of my OLD ALL METAL SEARS circular saw, and have at it. Do I miss that huge tablesaw? Nope.

If you want to keep all your fine work here, fine. No need to bother the rest of the people here that might not see what hard work you put in on a project. They just wouldn't understand, would they? Have fun, Sir...

[Zach Dillinger]

Ditto. I have the same indifference toward power tools, except I do use them from time to time. I have *zero* interest in getting on here and talking about them or fiddling with them beyond how they work out of the box, though - absolutely zero.

And that is perfectly understandable. To be honest, I have the same indifference to many hand tool threads. But I at least have a chance of learning something relevant to me there, unlike the router table plan / table saw jig / planer knife setting stuff we will be forced to wade through. Again, this isn't judgmental or "elitist", just a recognition of one man's interests.

[Zach Dillinger]

If you want to keep all your fine work here, fine. No need to bother the rest of the people here that might not see what hard work you put in on a project. They just wouldn't understand, would they? Have fun, Sir...

It was my understanding that we are talking only about shop made tools and tooling. I don't have a problem posting my furniture work anywhere I'm directed to post them. Furniture is furniture no matter how it is made.

And with that, I will extricate myself from this thread. We all seem to be talking past each other at this point and showcasing our particular prejudices, complexes, and beliefs. The owner of the site and mods will do what they will do (and they have every right to do so). Each individual will either adapt or move on as they see fit. No point in continuing the assault on this particular deceased equine...

[Steve Voigt]

If you want to keep all your fine work here, fine. No need to bother the rest of the people here that might not see what hard work you put in on a project. They just wouldn't understand, would they? Have fun, Sir...

If you want to post your projects on the new forum, no one is stopping you. In fact, no one here is trying to discourage anyone from using the new forum. The vast majority of posts here are simply expressing a preference for not having their old posts moved, and for having the right to continue posting tool builds right here. What you're doing however, is trying to browbeat people into using the new forum, and understandably people don't care for that. The phrase "live and let live" comes to mind. You've made your point; I think we get it.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not a vBulletin expert but should there not be a way to tag a thread so it would appear in both? The idea being that hand tool making threads would remain in the Neander forum but would simultaneously exist in the Shop Made Tool Forum. Perhaps this is something the OP could do or something available to moderators if a thread seems like it would be valuable to share.

From experience with another "bulletin board" having a post in two different areas can create problems. If the responses to a thread aren't also duplicated across both forums there can be two very different accountings of a process. Also unlinked threads of the same subject can upset someone who just took a half hour to craft a response only to find someone else also spent time to come up with the same response in another area. It gets old fast causing some to not bother with a response.

Another potential problem would be something we often see here when someone asks about creating a dado we come up with numerous different ways to make a dado. This came up recently when someone asked about buying a dado plane. If we were in a shared forum surely some of the power tool users would suggest a router. Then one would likely chime in about "a dado stack" for the table saw.

To me it seems There would be very little interest from a primarily power tool user in how George Wilson or David Weaver makes a plane. They likely are not interested in making a plane tote or a build thread on a back saw.

So, IF one should post a PIP of...say a small table that is 50-50 handtool/power tool build, WHERE does to "Elite" say to post this

Steven, there is a place for posting "Projects In Progress" if one wants it in a "special place."

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdis...rking-Projects

For my projects even though a bandsaw, drill press, power sander or lathe are often used they still get posted here. To me it is no more elitist than having a favorite restaurant or watering hole.

It also seems there is some conflict as to what is meant by neander, galoot or even hand tool worker. Maybe someone in the extreme would even rule out having electric lights in the shop. Personally if someone has a table saw and still wants to be considered a neander it doesn't bother me.

I think a few members have left us over such tiring arguments of who is right or wrong.

Some folks are more sensitive than others. The original poster of this thread has mentioned feeling ridiculed by some of the responses. He thought he had a great idea but somehow the implementation didn't bring pats on the back nor cheers of joy and adulation.

I just hope he doesn't abandon us over the response he received.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Is anyone even suggesting the a Mod move their posts? No? Then why the debate about it? Or, is Rumour Control behind all the hub-bub? IF someone wants to move a post of theirs, fine. Not one thing about the mods doing for them, that I remember seeing. Might be a case that IF you want a post of yours moved, YOU have to do it, NOT the Mods.

Browbeat? Ah, ....nope. Have fun the way YOU want to, I'm having fun the way I want to. Now, it seems I have a finish to do to a table. Might be more interesting subject than this is.....

[Steve Voigt]

I'm going to start one more thread, probably tomorrow or so - to build a coffin smoother properly out of cocobolo (a little more properly than the last). It will be in this forum, precise in detail, and putting it here is a calculated decision and it will take me a lot of extra time vs. just making the plane and keeping it to myself. I hope that anyone who has the same questions I had gains from it. I have zero interest in the discussion going any other direction - I'd rather it involve three ardent fanatics of plane design than 60 people who would rather use a boring bevel up plane.

Dave, I'm looking forward to seeing that.
A while back, you posted a thread showing some of your vintage English planes. As a direct result of the back and forth we had in that thread, and the pictures you posted, I was able to figure out the last missing piece (for me) of how to engineer the mouth of a double iron woodie. I think you had the same realizations. This was a huge thing for me. It's something that can't be found in Whelan or any other book, and can't even be found on most vintage, especially American, planes. The interesting thing is that it didn't come in a thread on tool building at all; the thread was about using and purchasing old tools. It just goes to show the tight relationship, as Kees already said, between threads on building planes, using planes, and collecting planes. (or spokeshaves, saws, whatever)

[Pat Barry]

I'm going to start one more thread, probably tomorrow or so - to build a coffin smoother properly out of cocobolo (a little more properly than the last). It will be in this forum, precise in detail, and putting it here is a calculated decision and it will take me a lot of extra time vs. just making the plane and keeping it to myself. I hope that anyone who has the same questions I had gains from it. I have zero interest in the discussion going any other direction - I'd rather it involve three ardent fanatics of plane design than 60 people who would rather use a boring bevel up plane.

I too, am looking forward to your new thread Dave. I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to have a subcategory to the Neanderthal Haven, focused on plane design. It would provide a dedicated location to post about projects like this, perhaps akin to the Musical Instrument forum.

[Pat Barry]

If I had my choice I'd like to see a hybrid woodworking forum.

If we weren't so inclined to be parochial then it would just be a big ol woodworking forum and we wouldn't need the fancy, and non-descript, "hybrid" term at all.

[Daniel Rode]

If we weren't so inclined to be parochial then it would just be a big ol woodworking forum and we wouldn't need the fancy, and non-descript, "hybrid" term at all.

Perhaps people in the General Woodworking forum do discuss hand tools in some form or another but how am I to wade through 100 threads about routers, tables saws and band saws to find some mention of using a plane or chisel? The signal to noise ratio is far, far too low for me.

Perhaps, a forum concerned with building furniture would be a better choice. More of a focus on the craft and less on the equipment would suit me. It's like photography. I'm far more interested in composition than cameras. Tough to sell ad space for composition.

[Judson Green]

Perhaps people in the General Woodworking forum do discuss hand tools in some form or another but how am I to wade through 100 threads about routers, tables saws and band saws to find some mention of using a plane or chisel? The signal to noise ratio is far, far too low for me.

Perhaps, a forum concerned with building furniture would be a better choice. More of a focus on the craft and less on the equipment would suit me. It's like photography. I'm far more interested in composition than cameras. Tough to sell ad space for composition.

I'm in the general forum occasionally and if a hand tool question gets posted there its usually not too long before it gets moved here.

There is a projects forum.

[David Weaver]

Dave, I'm looking forward to seeing that.
A while back, you posted a thread showing some of your vintage English planes. As a direct result of the back and forth we had in that thread, and the pictures you posted, I was able to figure out the last missing piece (for me) of how to engineer the mouth of a double iron woodie. I think you had the same realizations. This was a huge thing for me. It's something that can't be found in Whelan or any other book, and can't even be found on most vintage, especially American, planes. The interesting thing is that it didn't come in a thread on tool building at all; the thread was about using and purchasing old tools. It just goes to show the tight relationship, as Kees already said, between threads on building planes, using planes, and collecting planes. (or spokeshaves, saws, whatever)

It's definitely all interconnected. you can buy 10 old coffin smoothers before you learn what to look for and then buy one and get it. The junkers can be reconfigured to some extent (with inserts, with a supplemental metal sole, with a new wedge, etc) to work well, but when all is said and done, they're not worth anything if you ever decide you don't want them. I was never able to buy proper planes until I had one and was able to study why it worked the way it worked.

It's such a small difference cosmetically between a plane that works well and one that doesn't. That buying binge left me with a pile of planes that I will probably cut most of to pieces and just sell off the irons. It got a little out of control!! (I won't cut up the nice properly made planes, of course).

Those little detail discussions are what I come here for, to bounce things off of people that are also enthusiastic about trying to do something just right (even though my workmanship isn't quite up to "just right" levels, knowing what to do is still important), and that specific question - "how do I need to cut the bits and pieces in a coffin smoother or any double iron wooden plane to get it to feed right without having a wide open mouth". I just don't know where else you can get that stuff.

[Moses Yoder]

Is anyone even suggesting the a Mod move their posts? No? Then why the debate about it? Or, is Rumour Control behind all the hub-bub? IF someone wants to move a post of theirs, fine. Not one thing about the mods doing for them, that I remember seeing. Might be a case that IF you want a post of yours moved, YOU have to do it, NOT the Mods.

Browbeat? Ah, ....nope. Have fun the way YOU want to, I'm having fun the way I want to. Now, it seems I have a finish to do to a table. Might be more interesting subject than this is.....

Read much? Or has it been so long since the first post that you have forgotten what the discussion is about? I would suggest you read the initial post that this thread started with. I will be ignoring any further comments in this thread. Must say I am looking forward to the Weaver Creek plane build.

[Don Huffer]

withdrawing my post due to no one bothering to answer