Right now, I have the ONLY hand tool project over there. Outnumbered 6 to 1. Maybe a little help,people? I know some of have a hand made tool project available, why not come over and join me? maybe we can even the score a bit?
Right now, I have the ONLY hand tool project over there. Outnumbered 6 to 1. Maybe a little help,people? I know some of have a hand made tool project available, why not come over and join me? maybe we can even the score a bit?
Last edited by Bruce Page; 06-16-2014 at 2:56 PM. Reason: Removed implied profanity.
I like others who have chimed in is someone who reads most new posts in the neander forum daily, I rarely contribute because what I have to say is either not backed by experience or what I would add has already been said. I have tried reading the other fora (forums) regularly and they don't interest me, are about expensive machines that are not even for sale in my country and not what I'm looking for anyway. Subscribing / keeping abreast of multiple places at once is not the easiest with this forum software so keeping the current mix in one place is what I would prefer.
I understand the desire for many to goto posts that have useful and relevant content, buying, using and making tools is often the topic of discussion. This is for good reason as these are most of the things people do with their hand tools (make, buy, maintain and use them) as well as projects to make, although there are less builds than I'd prefer. Over the last year I have read through most of the historical discussions that were interesting to me that have been discussed over the life of the neanderthal forum, there is lots of quality content and lots of threads that are not helpful going past the original conversation.
I vote that we keep things working the way that they are but come up with a collective better way to categorize and inform members about finding what they are looking for. The FAQ and stickies maybe the way, as may tags or even if we could organise a wiki. Things like David's grooving plane or the tempering steel thread should not be lost amongst the host of similarly titled threads with less than useful information.
I agree. I would like to have a Neander homemade tool forum. There are many more power tool guys than Neanders, so it wouldn't be much fun wading through power tool threads while looking for hand tool threads.
I think I am fully aligned with you here. I personally care little viewing another router table. There's nothing wrong with them, just not my thing. We already have a large number of forums. Creating more just extends the ambiguity on where to post certain types of threads. Consider a project made by purely hand tool methods both metal and wood where a tool was made to complete the project. Do I post here in the Neander forum, in the metal working forum, general woodworking, completed projects, finishing forum, or the potential new hand tool making forum? At a certain point, interest gets diluted through too many over specific forums.
I like it the way it stands. If we were going to augment anything, creating a lexicon of key terms to make searching easier would be my suggestion. I am certaintly not dilligent about a naming conventions nor key tags. (On retrospect, this seems very unlike me related to the precision needed in my work. Perhaps I am a bit hypocritical here)
Shawn
"no trees were harmed in the creation of this message, however some electrons were temporarily inconvenienced."
"I resent having to use my brain to do your thinking"
Well, just to enlighten those power tool peoples out there. I post a second Project. Remember a saw bench build? It does have something for both "camps" Electric saws and drills for them, chisels, planes , and saws for our kind. We'll see how it goes. Might do another such project write up, later...
Personally I feel that removing the toolmaking threads from the Neanderforum, would be a serious amputation. And they certainly shouldn't be mixed in with the powertool ones. We are far in the minority, and that would be a "race" we can't win.
Using, restoring and making handtools are closely related to each other. You shouldn't remove one item from the mix.
We live in modern times with (potentially) amazing technology to solve problems like this.
I'm not a vBulletin expert but should there not be a way to tag a thread so it would appear in both? The idea being that hand tool making threads would remain in the Neander forum but would simultaneously exist in the Shop Made Tool Forum. Perhaps this is something the OP could do or something available to moderators if a thread seems like it would be valuable to share.
Relocating content from the Neander forum and discouraging content creators seems like a bad idea to me. Sharing that same same content seems like a win for everyone.
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
There are some out there that use a "mix" of styles. Not 100% power tool, nor 100% Galootist. Most I think fall somewhere in the mid-range. To say that All Hand tool items remain in a hand tool only place, and not be shared to all, smacks of "Elitest Snobbery"
Maybe IF we show off a bit towards the "Masses", maybe some will become converts to the Galoot side? I may post a couple more projects over at that forum, just to spark an interest. Others here can remain inside their Ivory Towers, safe from any contamination by the Power Tool Vermin......8-p.......;-)) (tongue FIRMLY in cheek)
It's not snobbery. It has to do with keeping the discussion focused and not diluting it. Most of the people from the power tool forums have nothing to teach me about plane design, and I have nothing to teach them about making a table saw jig or T-tracked this-or-that for a router table.
I don't have anything compelling to show to a dedicated random orbital sander, and no interest in trying to persuade such a person to finish work with a plane, let alone dimension it. It's their right to come here and read whatever they want and develop their own interest.
I'm going to start one more thread, probably tomorrow or so - to build a coffin smoother properly out of cocobolo (a little more properly than the last). It will be in this forum, precise in detail, and putting it here is a calculated decision and it will take me a lot of extra time vs. just making the plane and keeping it to myself. I hope that anyone who has the same questions I had gains from it. I have zero interest in the discussion going any other direction - I'd rather it involve three ardent fanatics of plane design than 60 people who would rather use a boring bevel up plane.
In my opinion, if it is helpful, as it appears the drawer grooving plane thread was, I'd rather see a post in the neanderthal wisdom thread than a post condemned to be lost among tablesaw tenoning jigs and shop made dust attachments.
Last edited by David Weaver; 06-17-2014 at 8:58 AM.
I think the concern is more about quality hand tool conversations being moved out of the Neanderthal forum. The result would be a reduction in our already thin content. Many of the members here have a narrow focused interest on things related to hand tools. Hand tool making is, IMO, an important part of that discussion.
I think David made the point that he may not want to commit the time and effort to post a how-to if it's just going to be lost in a glut of router tables and crosscut sleds. We all lose in that case.
I'm not necessarily looking to convert power tools users (of which I am one) to hand tools. If they have an interest, the Neanderthal forum is easy to find
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Well said Dan. Your paraphrasing of David Weaver's concerns echos my concerns exactly. I don't give a lark about converting people to all hand tools. It isn't "Elitist Snobbery", it is a recognition of one's interests and a limited amount of time. I will not waste my limited time paging through posts about things which have absolutely no relevance to me or my work.
The first rule of writing is to know your audience. We know our audience, and they predominately reside in the Neanderthal forum.
Last edited by Zach Dillinger; 06-17-2014 at 9:15 AM.
Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.
Hmmm, interesting. "I won't post there, they are NOT one of us.."
So, IF one should post a PIP of...say a small table that is 50-50 handtool/power tool build, WHERE does to "Elite" say to post thisIMAG0107.jpgafter all it used hand planes, chiseled mortises, hand and power saws, a lathe, a scrollsaw, several kinds of drills. In short, about half& half.
Of course, IF it takes too much out of one's "very Limited time of shop work" to post both here and there, fine. I happen to like a wee bit of variety in what I do..
A scene from the Sharpe's Rifles program:
Major Hogan is describing the newly raised up Lt. Sharpe and his troubles fitting in at the Officer's Mess to Sir Arthur
" you know the problem....Not one of US"
LOLOLOLOL
Last edited by steven c newman; 06-17-2014 at 10:34 AM.
Steven, I have no idea what a PIP is and I'm not interested in reconciling the differences between your opinion and mine or anyone else's. There is, however, no reason to be divisive by slinging terms around or applying labels to people.
I think certain people are making mountains out of molehills and fail to recognize a basic fact of our existence here: there are different forums for a reason. If I posted about chopping mortises by hand in the Power Tool forum, I probably wouldn't have much interest. If somebody posted some table saw thing here, it probably wouldn't get much interest. Ultimately, all of our concerns mean nothing as this forum belongs to one man. and that is fine. But, certain people should stop reading intent to divide when there is no such intent.
I suspect that most of the hybrid guys inhabit both the power tool forum and the hand tool forum because both are relevant to their work. If you use hand tools for one tiny process in your project, I for one still want to see your work in the Neanderthal forum. My way of doing something is unlikely to be exactly the same as yours and that is simply outstanding. We can learn from each other as long as we are speaking the same language.
I doubt the power tool only guys come here and I'd be surprised if the hand tool only guys go there. It isn't elitism. One way of work isn't better than any other. Frankly, I'm supremely annoyed that we even have to have this discussion for the seven millionth time.
The point is (others have probably said it better than I am about to): those of us who have no interest in power tool stuff (again, no judgment outside of a recognition that it doesn't interest me) will not read through a forum with a 6-to-1 against balance of relevant posts. I don't understand why this solution in search of a problem exists. This forum works just fine as is. But, as I said, the ultimate decision isn't in our hands.
But I suspect those "mountain out of mole hill" people won't let this go. I wish you all the best in your search for craftsmanship, however you define that.
Last edited by Zach Dillinger; 06-17-2014 at 10:49 AM.
Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.