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Thread: Sawstop or small combo machine?

  1. #1

    Sawstop or small combo machine?

    Looking to solicit some feedback on the following:

    I will be moving into a new house in a few months and finally will have dedicated shop space in the basement that will not have to double as the laundry room. The new space is rather small, approx. 12 x 20 with really nice ceiling hight.

    I current setup is:
    a harbor freight bench top TS which is woefully inaccurate and underpowered
    and dewalt RAS which is good at cross cutting but I am afraid to use for ripping
    a nice old grizzly bench top drill press
    a small bench top bandsaw
    i currently break down sheet goods on the floor with circular saw (not really happy with the quality of the cut)

    I am am going to sell the RAS when I move and replace with a new sliding compound mitre saw.

    The initial main projects will be kitchen cabinets and finishing the basement which will include large built-ins. When the honey do list is completed, I would like to try making furniture for the house.

    My wonderful wife has given me permission to outfit the new shop as I see fit so I can work accurately and safely. I am stuck on if I should buy the sawstop pcs (1.75 or 3hp?) outfitted with the incra TS-LS fence and router table combo or the mini max c26 genius small combo machine. If I went with the SS I would purchase a mini max j/p combo machine once I start building furniture.

    As I see it, the benefits/concerns of the SS/incra combo would be:
    the safety system
    the ease of cutting dove tails on the incra system
    but it would have a larger footprint once I buy a j/p combo down the road

    the mini max combo:
    4 quality machines in one small footprint
    the sliding table for the saw and shaper
    probably easier to cut sheet goods accurately
    the shaper would be easier for raised panel doors and milling moulding.


    I also will be buying a new bandsaw and portable cyclone dust collector to go into the shop.

    Which would you choose? All opinions welcomed.

  2. #2
    Personally, I'd rather get a cheaper CMS and put that money towards the other machines.

    If you go Sawstop, you might wait on the Incra LS/TS. It's a nice-to-have, but there are other ways to do quality joinery. Starting out, I'd prefer to upgrade the bandsaw.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Do a search on the C26 Genius here...someone just bought one. I dunno how well it would fit in your space but you should investigate this because it WOULD be nice having all those machines in one footprint...maybe!

    I did the "SS/Incra" combo thing many years ago and eventually got a MM FS41 Elite J/P (16") and it has all worked out well for me in my garage. There is no way I could have handle a separate jointer and planer plus I get a really wide jointer and a reasonably wide planer in one footprint. The Tersa head on this is fabulous and so darn easy and quick to change.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  5. #5
    You might consider something like the Eurekazone saw guide setup, a small vintage tilt-top table saw for joinery, a 16" or larger band saw and the jointer/planer machine. A table saw set up for cabinetmaking cuts can really eat up a lot of space. Consider a pantry side may be 72" long x24" wide and will need crosscutting on both ends, that's 6' of board sticking out to the left of where the table saw blade protrudes through your cut-off box. How are you going to have room to do that and also rip 8' ply without turning the table saw in a space like that? Then you've got the fence and extension table sticking out on the left. A pop-up HTC roller frame can be mounted on the back of a cabinet saw and will support a full 4x8 sheet. Truth is though you will probably get truer cuts in sheet goods using a track saw. There's a lot of opportunity for user error in muscling a 90lb. sheet onto a table saw and keeping it dead-on with the fence and feeding it at the same time.

    Of course the 5 function combo machine has a format sliding table which is great for the crosscuts and the machines are easy to turn for different cuts. Attaching an outfeed table may be awkward through so what are you going to do? Have a bench/outfeed on wheels you have to clean off every time you want to do a long rip? Roller stands?

    See what I'm getting at? You'll work around any choice you make of course.
    Last edited by Loren Woirhaye; 06-06-2014 at 3:43 PM.

  6. #6
    If you have the money I would get the C26. The slider saw is just as safe as the SS and you have all the advantages of the other machines without sacrificing floor space. The shaper will be better fro raised panel doors and you can always add a stand alone router table later for the smaller stuff.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    I am likely unrepresentative so take my advices as you like. I am admittedly tablesaw centric and do most other operations by hand. When all you had was a tablesaw and got good at using it to full advantage you develop a habit. I don't have a power jointer nor do I need one.

    I would do the SS (probably without the Incra) and ditch the RAS. I don't need a jointer nor shaper. The planer is used every so often. For large work, I like the benchtop mortiser. A drill press is incredibly handy. I don't build cabinetry or use sheet goods though.

    I am currently conflicted about a router table. I have one with an Incra fence that I very seldom use (1x in 2 years). I would love the space back. But there are somethings where a router table is so incredibly handy (pattern routing & roundovers on narrow / small stock.

    Good luck and enjoy the journey.
    Shawn

    "no trees were harmed in the creation of this message, however some electrons were temporarily inconvenienced."

    "I resent having to use my brain to do your thinking"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    As someone who replaced his cabinet saw, jointer, planer and shaper with a combination machine, I suggest you do that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A...tAYVtfHZUy9mCw

    Please watch this video all the way through to give you a good idea of waht a combination machine is like to use.

    I would never go back to a cabinet saw............Rod.

  9. #9
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    C 26 all the way.

  10. #10
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    I would go for Minimax combination machine... I recently bought a Minimax bandsaw and vey happy with the quality.

    I own a medium size combination machine(16" planer, 12' stroke 14" saw) and I use it for small production. I never use the mortise function though.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    I could not imagine not having at least a short stroke slier and would want a saw shaper combo with a table able to either crosscut 50 or 60". They can be used as a traditional for ripping or you can use a bandsaw but the flexibility of a sliding table for furniture work is so great I even have a little Hammond trim saw tucked in the corner. Takes up almost no room but get used on almost every project. Dave

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    I would prefer two separate combos (e.g. a saw/shaper + J/P) instead of a all packed into one machine. You loose something to gain the space saving they provide.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    The initial main projects will be kitchen cabinets and finishing the basement which will include large built-ins. When the honey do list is completed, I would like to try making furniture for the house.
    Regardless of what else you get, I'd give strong consideration to buying a Festool track saw.
    You can use it for the cabinets and built ins, then turn around and sell it.

    Festool stuff is expensive - but - it sells extremely fast used and holds it's value extremely well - aside from being just a pure pleasure to work with.
    (which may work against you since you may not want to sell it once you use it )
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Without question, go for the C26, the MM16, and don't look back. Don't buy a CMS until you've had time to work with a sliding table saw and see if you still think you need one. Unless you do trim carpentry, I doubt you'll miss it. I already had a Unisaw with the Jessem sliding fence (which is nice, but not in the catagory as a dedicated sliding table saw) and decided to get the FS30 and MM16. At some point I'll likely replace the Unisaw with the SC2 sliding table saw or the ST3 Saw/Shaper. The MiniMax quality and customer service is outstanding. I considered the Felder, but cost swung to the MM - I'm sure I'd be just as satisfied with the Felder - when similarly equipped.

    The SawStop is a quality table saw, but the C26 is simply in another category. You won't be upgrading again. One other suggestion I got from MM's Sam Blasco. I was concerned about the infeed/outfeed table length of the FS30 compared to the DJ20 it replaced. He suggested looking at the Aigner line of machine accessories. http://www.martin-usa.com/cms/_main/...catalogue.html At Sam's suggestion I bought the table extensions and extra mounting brackets so they can be used on either the MM16 or FS30.

  15. #15
    Thanks everyone for your feedback. I appreciate it. Have some thinking to do.

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