How is Grizzly overall as a brand?

[Rod Sheridan]

I have never owned any Grizzly machinery and probably never will.

I have owned a shop full of General (Made in Canada) machinery which has now been replaced by Hammer machinery.

My jointer and planer were replaced by a Hammer A3-31 jointer planer which gave me several benefits over my General equipment.

- space savings
- capacity increase
- lower cost
- easier knife changes
- excellent range of accessories such as digital height gauge, table extensions.

My cabinet saw and shaper were replaced by a Hammer B3 Winner with the comfort package and the 49" crosscut capacity. Benefits were

- increased capacity in crosscut from 12" to 49"
- sliding table with outrigger, able to process sheet goods and large solid wood pieces for furniture
- scoring saw
- improved dust collection
- 3 function rip fence for improved convenience and safety
- riving knife and overhead dust collection
- electronic blade brake
- ability to straight line rip material
- good range of accessories

On the shaper front the improvements were

- sliding table
- tilting spindle with 4 speeds
- ability to use sanding drums
- tenoning hood and table
- flip up stock feeder for use on the saw or shaper.
- ability to use 1 1/4" or 30mm tooling
- electronic blade brake
- good range of accessories

The differences between a Euro machine and an Asian or North American machine are far greater than quality control issues, the Euro machines are so much better in so many ways that they're not even in the same universe.

- dust collection, designed from the ground up to collect dust, because in the EU machines are actually tested for this under working conditions. Poor dust collections means nobody buys your equipment.

- safety, same thing, safety performance is legislated so machines have to meet safety standards. This means that machines are designed from the ground up to be safer so guards that actually work and help with work quality, automatic blade braking under a specified maximum time, MAN rated cutters for reduced kickback incidence and energy, and better design for workpiece support such as factory sliding tables and table extensions.

In my case the EU machines increased my safety, health, work capacity and convenience, while reducing my costs and space requirements.

Do yourself a favour and watch this video, it's long however it does a good job of illustrating the capabilities of EU hobby machines compared to NA hobby machines.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I

Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

I'm a fan of high end used but all should keep in mind that the country of origin now mainly relevant depending on the price point of the machine. All countries are capable of good or bad stuff. Very few make good stuff for few dollars. Even the Euro machines, particularly the lower end are not all Euro. Parts and sometimes substantial components are sourced from Asia, including China. The Euros do a better job of QC over those sources in my opinion and make some great stuff, but it is incorrect to assume that Euro is all Euro. Dave

[Duane Meadows]

Yep, proves if you spend more money, you get more features. Same can be said for Grizzly.

Guess if you want to spend the money on Euro tools, go for it. But you can't convince everyone that is what's best for their situation any more than you can convince me a Rolls Royce is best for me. This is one of the biggest complaints I see with woodworking forums in general. They keep telling me I shouldn't attempt woodworking because I can't/won't spend $10's or $100's of thousands of dollars for "the best" tools?

If you can/want to, fine, but geez give me a break! Talent/skill/technique counts for nothing these days? Have to think really hard about supporting a forum of tool snobs again! Nuff said.

Well not quite enough... I still have all my body parts after 30 some years of using such "inferior tools". And admins, if wish to ban me or delete this post, feel free!

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, were you using a General International or a General planer?

Big difference, General was made in Canada, General International is made in Taiwan....................Regards, Rod.

Oh, general international Rod. I wish it were the Canadian made stuff, but its the basic Chaiwan model that looks like every other brands planers. The general stuff seems to be real industrial machinery with a price to match.

Uh...just went to check the General web site....every tool on every page has the general international badge. Is anything actually made by general any more, or is it all general international?

[Michael Yadfar]

So it all comes down to what you want/need for your shop. In the beginning of this thread you sounded like money was no object and you wanted good quality equipment. Now it seems as though it's shifted to buying the least costly machine available? It's your shop so you have to make that decision. But I'll say again that I agree with Peter, I've bought new Grizzly and Bridgewood machines, and I've bought a lot of last generation new or almost new Powermatic and Delta equipment, and regardless of looks, they are not the same quality and they do not perform the same. Whether or not they are worth the premium they charge is a different issue, and one that only you can decide.

good luck,
JeffD

I truly do have a good amount of money to spend, I have maybe $30,000 worth of money I don't need for at least a few years and I recently upped my work hours. Realistically though it turns back down to a best value kind of thing and what my use is. My shop is going to be a weekend hobby type thing and I'm building some furniture for my personal use; so yes, I could go out and buy say Minimax equipment, but for what I'm using my equipment for, it may be better saving most that $30,000 for something I will need later, like say a new truck. Plus like I said I'm in a shed shop right now, so while I hope to avoid it, I would rather see a mouse nest in a $2,000 planer rather than a $5,000 planer.

Now the reason why I'm avoiding "better Asian" brands like Jet are because of the value issue. I've heard many things elsewhere before about Asian brands coming off the same assembly lines and stuff. If we are talking a few hundred dollars more I would rather go with the slight Jet upgrade, but it's $2,000 vs $3,000 for what I see as essentially the same machine.

Even this is an upgrade to my initial plan to get a lunchbox planer. That's seriously what I considered at first, but something I learned is that a lunch box planer stands no chance against rough sawn lumber...

[David Weaver]

I guess Kia would be the correct comparison to Grizzly, and I guess a company like Jet would be the Toyota type company. I feel like the brands I never heard of like Tata or Yugo are more like Harbor Freight type stuff. I guess it's safe to say that Grizzly is the lowest of the "good" brands

The basic felder, minimax and other mid to high end hobbyist machines are what I'd equate to toyota. Even without regard to price, there is little more consistent quality and consistent durability than toyotas, even though all of the makers have slipped a little as they've relocated production and chased market demands for certain things.

Grizzly equipment is generally inexpensive, and there is no differentiator with it that would make someone believe it's more likely to be to tight spec and more durable than anything else.

The grizzly equipment that I've seen is a little less well finished than new jet and new powermatic, but WMH (or whoever their owner is this week) has gone nutty with price, so they're sort of like hyundai with acura prices.

But all of these comparisons to cars aren't really relevant. They are woodworking machines, and not cars.

And as was said earlier, you can't even count on brand, because it's not like someone has a corporate office with their factory through the back doors of the headquarters - you have to read up on each machine.

[Mike Delyster]

Oh, general international Rod. I wish it were the Canadian made stuff, but its the basic Chaiwan model that looks like every other brands planers. The general stuff seems to be real industrial machinery with a price to match.

Uh...just went to check the General web site....every tool on every page has the general international badge. Is anything actually made by general any more, or is it all general international?

Sadly General shut down their Canadian production last year, so everything comes from Taiwan now under the General International name.

[Dave Verstraete]

Michael
I haven't read through all of the preceding posts but would just like to put in my 2 cents. I have the 0453 planer with the spiral head and it has served me well. I would buy it again.

[Rod Sheridan]

Duane, I never said anything about that being the solution for everyone, what I indicated was that regardless of who makes the tools, there are better options than the out of date North American style machines.

You can buy a made in the USA or made in China machine, and you'll get what you pay for.

We've all owned some really crap North American made tools and machines, likewise Chinese.

I completely agree with you on skills, I'm not super however I do a lot of hand work including dovetails and morticing as well as finish planing by hand.

Woodworking is a journey, it's the learning that's the fun part.............Regards, Rod.

[Jim Barstow]

This reminds me of the arguments we use to have over component brands back when I bicycled a lot. It was ridiculous to hear people argue over ounces in weights when they were carrying around an extra 20 lbs on their body. I once lived across a cove from a guy who owned part of an NBA team. He had a dream shop filled with very expensive equipment and he gave me an tour of every square inch. Didn't matter how much he spent on his tools, he still built stuff that was poor quality.

I use to have a shop full of Inca equipment (very high quality Swiss made tools). When I built a bigger shop, I filled it with a Sawstop and heavy Grizzly equipment. The Grizzly joint and planer gives me perfectly flat and square stock. The Grizzly bandsaw will resaw the thickest stuff I've thrown at it and cut it perfectly straight. That's only a tiny part of the process; much more important is what I do with it.

[bob cohen]

They are not, I own both and for some machines Grizzly is superior at a much lower cost. Not every machine in every category but one example is the Grizzly G0696x 12" 5hp table saw, it is superior to the Powermatic PM2000 10" and cost less. I have both and know them both well. The 8" parallelogram jointer is another example where Grizzly and PM are about the exact same machine, same castings same factory both have CHINA motor. I called up PM and asked them if they could tell me what I would get for the much higher priced PM and they couldn't list a single feature.

I have owned both of these planers. The powermatic fence, which is adjusted by a very smooth hand wheel, is far superior to the grizzly. Ir should also be noted that the powermatic comes virtually fully assembled.

[Art Mann]

Even this is an upgrade to my initial plan to get a lunchbox planer. That's seriously what I considered at first, but something I learned is that a lunch box planer stands no chance against rough sawn lumber...

Please don't let my Ridgid TP1300 lunchbox planer hear you say that! It is unaware of your claim and has planed thousands of feet of rough sawn Walnut, Cherry, Maple, White Oak and other hard woods over the last 10 years. If it learns it has such limitations, it might stop working.

[Mike Chalmers]

Even this is an upgrade to my initial plan to get a lunchbox planer. That's seriously what I considered at first, but something I learned is that a lunch box planer stands no chance against rough sawn lumber...

Where in the informed world did you get that information? I would wager there are many people, if not most, on this site that would argue that point. Then again, if you have that kind of money available, I would vote for at least a 15" planer, preferably a 20".

[Michael Yadfar]

Where in the informed world did you get that information? I would wager there are many people, if not most, on this site that would argue that point. Then again, if you have that kind of money available, I would vote for at least a 15" planer, preferably a 20".

The issue in argument with that is the fact that I want a spiral head. What I believe to be the top lunchbox planer, the Dewalt, I've heard of many issues with blade chipping and blades definitely aren't cheap. Another negative thing I've heard about these is that lunchbox planers in general have bad snipe. If I were to put a spiral head on one of these, the spiral head would out cost the planer and I'll be paying around $1,100. I would also have issues with not having enough power. For that price, I thought a lower quality stationary planer with a spiral head would be better off. For $700 more, it buys me a Grizzly 3hp spiral head planer.

[Larry Edgerton]

I truly do have a good amount of money to spend, I have maybe $30,000 worth of money .

As an example of what I am talking about used, I just saw a Knapp combination machine go for $12,000. Four years old, sliding tablesaw, shaper, planer, jointer, mortising table and a router spindle that speeds up the bit to an acceptable speed. Every piece of that machine is better than anything coming out of China, and for about the same cost as junk separates. But its not as easy as opening up a catalog picking something out.

Larry