How is Grizzly overall as a brand?

[Peter Quinn]

Took the words right out of my mouth, and thats because Yugo is gone.

I recently had the unpleasant experience of working in a shop full of Grizzly tools. I can not say what I honestly think or my post will be deleted, but suffice to say, I was glad to get back to my own shop filled with Toyota's.

Larry

ditto. Anybody says anything they really feel here against the bear and as an under writer they will shut you down, delete your posts, etc. it's a big green love fest up in here. So read this quick. Grizzly as a brand? It's a case by case basis, they sell a lot of machines, some quite good, some a decent value if not what I'd call best of breed, some are barely possible rubbish I wouldn't pick up for free from the side of the road. As a commercial user I do this for money, so my perspective may differ from a hobby user on the price/ quality/ expectations equation. I own a few and have used far more than that at shops where I've worked. I have never used a single grizzly machine that I haven't used a better version of the same basic tool by another manufacturer. They don't make the best anything IME, but you've seen the catalogue, the prices are great, and not every machine has to be the best to serve its purpose, not every user has the financing to buy the best, so there is a wide market for their goods, thus the popularity. For me it comes often down to set up time...because time is money in a commercial shop. Performance is a base line in custom wood working, the tool had to do its job in an accurate manner, but beyond that, how much time do I have to spend changing cutters, belts, bands, blades, setting fences, are adjustments easy, are controls in the right place? Ask your self these questions as you compare machines.


On the minimax thing, it's small shop commercial or serious hobby, some machines at the upper end are on the verge of industrial like scmi stuff, some may actually be the same, Eric Loza clearly is the one to ask there on a given machine. I love every piece of minimax equipment I've used or owned. Scmi too, good stuff. Not cheap, not Martin or altendorf, but definitely well above the average Asian import quality IMO.


On the casedie planer.....I used to used that planer too in a 24"' almost everything I can afford is a step or 5 down from that level. I saw one on close out once for $10k, desperately wanted to buy it, get a 20hp phase converter....bigger dust collector.....nah. Not for my home shop. It's like bringing a tank to a fishing derby.

[Michael Yadfar]

ditto. Anybody says anything they really feel here against the bear and as an under writer they will shut you down, delete your posts, etc. it's a big green love fest up in here. So read this quick. Grizzly as a brand? It's a case by case basis, they sell a lot of machines, some quite good, some a decent value if not what I'd call best of breed, some are barely possible rubbish I wouldn't pick up for free from the side of the road. As a commercial user I do this for money, so my perspective may differ from a hobby user on the price/ quality/ expectations equation. I own a few and have used far more than that at shops where I've worked. I have never used a single grizzly machine that I haven't used a better version of the same basic tool by another manufacturer. They don't make the best anything IME, but you've seen the catalogue, the prices are great, and not every machine has to be the best to serve its purpose, not every user has the financing to buy the best, so there is a wide market for their goods, thus the popularity. For me it comes often down to set up time...because time is money in a commercial shop. Performance is a base line in custom wood working, the tool had to do its job in an accurate manner, but beyond that, how much time do I have to spend changing cutters, belts, bands, blades, setting fences, are adjustments easy, are controls in the right place? Ask your self these questions as you compare machines.


On the minimax thing, it's small shop commercial or serious hobby, some machines at the upper end are on the verge of industrial like scmi stuff, some may actually be the same, Eric Loza clearly is the one to ask there on a given machine. I love every piece of minimax equipment I've used or owned. Scmi too, good stuff. Not cheap, not Martin or altendorf, but definitely well above the average Asian import quality IMO.


On the casedie planer.....I used to used that planer too in a 24"' almost everything I can afford is a step or 5 down from that level. I saw one on close out once for $10k, desperately wanted to buy it, get a 20hp phase converter....bigger dust collector.....nah. Not for my home shop. It's like bringing a tank to a fishing derby.

Thank you. I saved this to my computer incase it gets deleted, but I thought you stated it well. You gave a realistic approach of comparing hobby level vs commercial, and gave me some stuff to think about. If I have unlimited time and limited budget, Grizzly may be the brand. But other way around, maybe I want to bump up. Very good stuff.

Back onto the Casedie, I absolutely loved that thing. The one we had was the only stationary machine in the shop not bolted down, and that was strictly because you didn't have to, the things heavy and bullet proof. Ours had built in hooks on top so you can carry by crane. When they moved it from the old shop to the new shop they built, I heard they moved it in by crane before they put the roof on. Ours even had a built in sharpener on top which I don't even see when I google these machines. Only issue is parts. There was one minor part we had to find, and the only one we found was in Iran and there's a trade embargo. It was a cosmetic part so no issue though

[Bryan Cramer]

Remember the picture floating around the web showing Gee Tech's (I believe) new planer manufacuring facility in Tiwan and a Powermatic and a Grizzly planer were coming off the same line. When I buy Asian made tools it's mostly Grizzly. If i want a better tool I would choose a Eropean brand. Grizzly has improved in quality over the years. Hobbiest wise you can't go wrong with Grizzly. (Side thought: what about selling your 6" jointer and then purchasing a Grizzly 12" combination jointer planer. My 6" is too narrow for most rough lumber. )

[Peter Kelly]

Keep in mind that new machines with the "Made in Taiwan" badge often come with Chinese-made motors and switches. Replacement can be expensive.

[Chris Padilla]

My first major ww'ing tool purchase when I got married and purchased my first house was a Grizzly 1023Z (10" table saw). It was the right price (under a grand I'm fairly certain...back in 2000) and today I cannot lodge a single complaint about except that I wish it would die so I can get a SawStop! hahahaha!! Since then I seriously considered purchasing some of their higher-end jointers and planers but I could not handle the space of two separate machines like that so I went looking combo and plunked down nice change (I now have "nice change") for a MM J/P combo machine. This was probably 7-8 years ago (no combo J/P at Grizzly then) and I picked up a used MM20 bandsaw during that time as well. I still have zero complaints about any of these machines and they've all served my weekend wood whacking cravings just fine. Grizzly, for the hobbyist, is still the best bang for the buck IMO.

[Michael Yadfar]

Remember the picture floating around the web showing Gee Tech's (I believe) new planer manufacuring facility in Tiwan and a Powermatic and a Grizzly planer were coming off the same line. When I buy Asian made tools it's mostly Grizzly. If i want a better tool I would choose a Eropean brand. Grizzly has improved in quality over the years. Hobbiest wise you can't go wrong with Grizzly. (Side thought: what about selling your 6" jointer and then purchasing a Grizzly 12" combination jointer planer. My 6" is too narrow for most rough lumber. )

I looked into the combination machines and have heard there are issues with these. Also, I don't think it comes with a sprial head. I never really looked into it too much to see if I can put one on though. In the shop I worked in before, despite having a $15,000 planer, we only had a Delta DJ-15 6" jointer. Typically what I'd do is cut the lumber down to <6 on the bandsaw before jointing

[jeff shanz]

Good point regarding the Byrd head. I know knife changes are easy on those Euro machines but a Byrd head eventually pays for itself.
Edit: you gotta keep buying knives on the Euro machines.

[Harold Burrell]

My response will be simple...

Nearly every large machine I own is a Grizzly. They work well and I like them. Could I have found better machines? Certainly. I just couldn't afford them.

[Michael Yadfar]

My first major ww'ing tool purchase when I got married and purchased my first house was a Grizzly 1023Z (10" table saw). It was the right price (under a grand I'm fairly certain...back in 2000) and today I cannot lodge a single complaint about except that I wish it would die so I can get a SawStop! hahahaha!! Since then I seriously considered purchasing some of their higher-end jointers and planers but I could not handle the space of two separate machines like that so I went looking combo and plunked down nice change (I now have "nice change") for a MM J/P combo machine. This was probably 7-8 years ago (no combo J/P at Grizzly then) and I picked up a used MM20 bandsaw during that time as well. I still have zero complaints about any of these machines and they've all served my weekend wood whacking cravings just fine. Grizzly, for the hobbyist, is still the best bang for the buck IMO.

I worked with a sawstop before too, I think we had the highest end table saw they made. Definitely a high quality tool and very safe. The first day I worked with my Ridgid contractor saw I almost cut my finger off. I cut a full sheet of 3/4" plywood myself without any feed tables, and I would never try that again. I still gotta figure out feed tables for that still. I bought that table saw because I got a really good price and it stores well. It's not really designed for woodworking, but it works.

[Jon McElwain]

I've owned a 14" bandsaw, 15" stationary planer, 10" tablesaw, a little 1/3 hp bench top drill press - all by Grizzly. I had bearing problems with the bandsaw, planer, and tablesaw. As in, I had to replace the bearings in each of these machines. My only other complaint about the bandsaw was the blade length was a little bit of an odd size and they seemed to use some weird bolt sizes. The drill press had some runnout, but it was a little cheap machine and it is probably not fair to draw many conclusions based on a bench top unit. My overall impression with these machines is that they a decent enough machines, but they do use some lower end parts like bearings and motors.

A few years ago, I had a bunch of flood damage and I took the opportunity to "upgrade." I got a PM2000 that has an overall better fit and finish than the 10" tablesaw I had. I have run more material through the Powermatic than the Grizzly, and I have had no problems. I got a Laguna 14" SUV bandsaw (non-Italian), and again, a little better fit and finish, and some higher end parts (leeson motor for example). I have been more satisfied with the Laguna for sure, but it is still an asian machine and I have had some serious disappointments with the machine. The bandsaw disappointments were mostly discovered during setup, and I have most of the kinks worked out now. Any more I am pretty happy with the saw. I got a Laguna 16" planer to upgrade from the Grizzly - my comments here would be similar to the bandsaw comments.

The Grizzly machines were all 1995 to 2000 era machines and the new machines were purchased in 1999 or 2000. Again, I think Grizzly makes some decent machines, but you may need to replace some parts here and there, and there may be some peculiarities to them. The Powermatic tablesaw has been a solid performer - I can see wanting something a little fancier/bigger for a commercial shop, but it is pretty nice for my strictly hobby shop. If I had it to do again, I would have steered clear of the Laguna machines - I bought them before I was on Sawmill Creek regularly. I think I would have gone Minimax or possibly sprung for an Italian saw for the bandsaw, and probably a Powermatic or something else for the planer. Grizzly seems to be making better and better machines though - I might have to take another look at them as the price is right.

[Cary Falk]

I'm definitely sure that Jet has some degree of higher quality than Grizzly, but we are talking about a $2,000 planer vs a $3,000 planer, both from Asia.

No way is Grizzly a lesser tool than Jet. From the tools I had Jet, Delta, Steel City, Grizzly, and Rikon are all on the same level and is what I would call consumer grade. Grizzly quality has gone up in the last decade. I do think it is unfare the thread is comparing them to tools that cost 2-3x the costs like mini-max and other Euro.

As far as the cars go Toyota's quality, resale value, and reliability is way above the big three. I put BMW on par with Jet. You get very little for what you pay for. We had one for about 6 months. I only drive Toyota's. My wife drives an Audi. It's ok but I don't see the appeal. I liked the Infinity we had better.

[Peter Quinn]

Remember the picture floating around the web showing Gee Tech's (I believe) new planer manufacuring facility in Tiwan and a Powermatic and a Grizzly planer were coming off the same line. When I buy Asian made tools it's mostly Grizzly. If i want a better tool I would choose a Eropean brand. Grizzly has improved in quality over the years. Hobbiest wise you can't go wrong with Grizzly. (Side thought: what about selling your 6" jointer and then purchasing a Grizzly 12" combination jointer planer. My 6" is too narrow for most rough lumber. )

I've recently been using a general 20" planer and a powermatic 20" planer almost side by side, one has a spiral head but otherwise that same basic Taiwan small shop four poster model. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the powermatic has a real motor in it while the general has.....I don't know, two geriatric gerbils on a rusty wheel? There are a lot of similarities between these two machines, but when you put rubber to road, or wood to knives, the powermatic chews up stock, the general struggles to take a full width pass at any depth. Something is clearly different. The general has a great spiral head, but just has no power.

I remember reading an OLD fine wood working where they took apart one of the original grizzly four post 15" imports and a delta dc-380 iir for comparison? Came down to the delta had a serous set of springs in the chip breaker, the griz had two springs from a ball point pen. Or almost that bad. That was a long time ago, you have to start some where, no doubt the situation has improved, but it's still my firm belief that not everything is the same in those machines just because they have the same silhouette. I'd love to see an engineering tear down to see just what's under each hood in each brand. Castings may all be the same, but springs? Gears? Rubber in the wheels? Bearings? Head machining? Bolt grade? These things are hard to compare for a consumer but their spec can swing the price and performance of a machine considerably. Oh...and motor! You can buy a $120 3hp tefc motor or a $1200 3hp tefc motor.


I once worked in a mattress factory that made mattresses for all three large major brands, on the same production line, from largely the same parts, but there was considerably quality difference between models and brands to hit different price points. All looked the same going out the door in a bag. Don't judge a mattress by its cover, it's what's inside that counts....or is that about planers? Or books? Or people? All of the above?

[glenn bradley]

You really need to look at other forums and ask the same question. Just as there is a large Festoolian love-fest here there is an anti Grizzly undercurrent too that I have never really understood. I have many colors in the shop and the Grizzly tools all work fine for me. Is it the car, or the driver? At any rate, fish a few other ponds with the same bait to get a balanced catch.

[Larry Edgerton]

What would you consider the "Toyota" brand of hobbiest tools? Jet? I'm only asking because that's what I assume here, because the reference to minimax wasn't really applicable since I'm not looking into commercial purposes

And just out of curiosity, what would you consider the Mercedes Benz brand? I consider the old Delta-Rockwell and all that to be the "Muscle Cars" of tools so you can't count them

If you want a quality machine at an affordable price , used Euro is the way to go. Takes more effort, and a bit of homework but its better than some stuff that's green. Seriously, I do not consider any of the tools that I used last winter to be safe, especially the shapers.

Oh, Tata motors now owns Jaguar, so if you know anyone with a Jag make sure you mention that fact.

Larry

[Bryan Cramer]

I've recently been using a general 20" planer and a powermatic 20" planer almost side by side, one has a spiral head but otherwise that same basic Taiwan small shop four poster model. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the powermatic has a real motor in it while the general has.....I don't know, two geriatric gerbils on a rusty wheel? There are a lot of similarities between these two machines, but when you put rubber to road, or wood to knives, the powermatic chews up stock, the general struggles to take a full width pass at any depth. Something is clearly different. The general has a great spiral head, but just has no power.

I remember reading an OLD fine wood working where they took apart one of the original grizzly four post 15" imports and a delta dc-380 iir for comparison? Came down to the delta had a serous set of springs in the chip breaker, the griz had two springs from a ball point pen. Or almost that bad. That was a long time ago, you have to start some where, no doubt the situation has improved, but it's still my firm belief that not everything is the same in those machines just because they have the same silhouette. I'd love to see an engineering tear down to see just what's under each hood in each brand. Castings may all be the same, but springs? Gears? Rubber in the wheels? Bearings? Head machining? Bolt grade? These things are hard to compare for a consumer but their spec can swing the price and performance of a machine considerably. Oh...and motor! You can buy a $120 3hp tefc motor or a $1200 3hp tefc motor.


I once worked in a mattress factory that made mattresses for all three large major brands, on the same production line, from largely the same parts, but there was considerably quality difference between models and brands to hit different price points. All looked the same going out the door in a bag. Don't judge a mattress by its cover, it's what's inside that counts....or is that about planers? Or books? Or people? All of the above?

That's so true. My point is most of the tools come from the same factory so they function the same but the differences come into play (like you said) when the company chooses parts (such as motors) to cut costs. A hobbiest might not ever run a machine at its capacity as a profesional would so the internal differences might not be issues.