Choosing the right moulder planer, or other options

[Carter Forbes]

Thanks Dave. I will pay help to route and sand it all again until I find a machine we can all agree on. I was going Laguna , but I can see how a full time machine can open more doors for me. Time to diversify my income.

[J.R. Rutter]

The T110 was one of my favorites. Just small enough to shove around the floor if needed. Not as robust as the T130, but more than capable of running your profiles. 360 degree is on the upper range for price, but they have a good reputation for being selective with their offerings - no beat up junk.

http://360degreemachinery.com/?p=4553

Here is one with reverse switch and height gauge, but no feeder.

http://www.machineryassociates.com/m...-For-Sale-4915

[J.R. Rutter]

4 head SCMI Compact 23 for cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCMI-Moulder...item4d1dbdd4bc

[Rick Fisher]

I would probably do it with a shaper, but a moulder would be the ultimate .. The shaper might be more versatile down the road. I would do exactly as JR and David described. Get a used t-110 or T-130 and a 1hp power feeder. I wouldn't go lower than 1hp on the feeder.

If you buy a T-110 or T-130 used, you will be able to sell it for what you paid should needs change.

[Justin Ludwig]

Attachment 289023 Left is a 3hp Asian. Next is a 6 hp Knapp, the T130, and a Felder 7-700 series. Again for reference. Dave

That makes me sick to my stomach. Only because I'm on the wrong side of the picture.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm using the sliding table version of the t-130 David referenced above, its a pleasure to set up and run, that class of shaper is basic, but in a good way, and should handle about anything you will throw at it. I think they paid $4500 at auction? Keep looking, expect to pay freight, there may not be one in your back yard so look wide. In europe they call them spindle molders, and for a good reason, its basically a single spindle vertical molder. Real stout. I haven't used a t-110 but I own a shaper in the same weight class, also very capable, probably not quite as good for larger architectural work like small crown runs or large curved work to pattern, but very capable of doing the types of things you originally mentioned and quite a bit more. I'm not sure which Laguna you meant, they have several 5HP models, the big stomia slider looks pretty robust, and 5HP is enough to do the work you are discussing but certainly not enough for what that machine is capable of based on its build. Should be at least 7.5, or 9, or even 11HP based on its size and weight. My point is skip the laguna if possible, the big one is very expensive, the lower end asian imports look like the same junk clone I've seen from other vendors, just sub standard. To me a shaper's performance in a business should be perfunctory, its just there doing the work as a given, no work arounds, no heavy sanding sessions to overcome chatter and runout, no fighting with a bad fence. Take a close look at the fence on any machine you are considering, is it easily adjustable, do you need tools to make those adjustments that you must track down each time you set it up, do the cutters come in and out easily? The t-130 has a mechanical digital height readout (i.e. not electronic) that is dead accurate as a relative reading, I've been going back to a set up for a large job, cope stick and panel, in between other moldings and work, its dead on every time just by marking all the bushings and going back to the original numbers. Set it once....done. To me thats what a small custom shop needs, quick accurate set ups and versatile performance. Those asian imports? Bad fences, sloppy raising/lowering/locking mechanism, small cartridge bearings, etc. There are two sitting next to the t-13o that I wont even use, tried, not accurate enough, one is not square to the table, lock nut system is the strangest thing I've ever seen, whole thing feels like something I made in my garage on a bridge port from spare parts.


Amana braised cutters are a good value IMO, they arrive sharp, the carbide is thick and can be resharpened plenty of times, they work well for the money. Freeborn seems to work better, maybe its the angle they hit the wood? Maybe they are finer grain carbide? I have no idea really other then to say they seem to cut a little better a little longer, and for that pleasure you pay. The amana carbide insert heads are a whole different animal, they are excellent IME, and quite expensive like most industry tooling, they are actually a fair value in the level at which they compete.

[Mike Heidrick]

Laguna has the T1002S shaper. It would easily do what you want and may be cheaper used than a scmi or felder. You can stack the cutters easily. Does anyone make a cutter with indexable carbide inserts that would do what you want vs the braized carbide of freeborn? Would make replacements fast and cheap overall maybe. Thinking a rebate dual chamfer head of some kind? JR or David do you know?





If you question its build quality come on over. I Would not trade it for a 700 series Felder. Stomana Hickman makes them in Bulgaria. Laguna installs a 5hp Baldor reliance motor and a Fuji Mini AF300 VFD. I am not sure what amperage or phase you run in your shop but 7.5hp, 9hp, and 11hp 3 phase are no joke and converting 220V single phase to power those bad boys will demand an expensive VFD or a large RPC. Now you may have 3phase available in your shop but if you are running router tables today I am guessing you better plan for the electrical as well.

[David Kumm]

If you are going with a big shaper you should upgrade the wiring and go with an RPC. A shaper with an internal vfd to convert from single phase adds lots of complicated issues inside the machine and is never easy to repair and the vfd fitted is often such that you don't have a ton of choices at reasonable prices. Felder uses that as well with some of their machines that have variable speed- an option I'd avoid. Here are the shapers that go with the spindles. Fixed and sliding T130. I do prefer the slider on the Knapp and Felder to the cast iron T130 for ease of use but the T130 handles larger cutters. All are under 5K used. The last is an older Martin which is replacing the fixed T130 so it is for sale. Used can be found at a good value. DaveDSCN1457.jpgDSCN2155.jpgDSCN1609.jpgDSCN2305.jpg

[Peter Quinn]

Laguna has the T1002S shaper. It would easily do what you want and may be cheaper used than a scmi or felder. You can stack the cutters easily. Does anyone make a cutter with indexable carbide inserts that would do what you want vs the braized carbide of freeborn? Would make replacements fast and cheap overall maybe. Thinking a rebate dual chamfer head of some kind? JR or David do you know? If you question its build quality come on over. I Would not trade it for a 700 series Felder. Stomana Hickman makes them in Bulgaria. Laguna installs a 5hp Baldor reliance motor and a Fuji Mini AF300 VFD. I am not sure what amperage or phase you run in your shop but 7.5hp, 9hp, and 11hp 3 phase are no joke and converting 220V single phase to power those bad boys will demand an expensive VFD or a large RPC. Now you may have 3phase available in your shop but if you are running router tables today I am guessing you better plan for the electrical as well.

I have 7hp 3phase in my shop, not that expensive to install or run, I turned down a reasonably priced 20HP phase convertor, just don't need that, but he's running a business and may have 3 phase native if he's in a commercial or industrial zone. Mike, you got a great deal on that shaper, but at $10K list you can most definitely get a used SCMI with a 9 HP motor. No shot or insult meant to your machine, but I have run moldings that would would stall a 5HP motor period, or at least make it labor hard. Stomia seems to offer that shaper with much larger motors, look at the whole in the table, would you want to push a 10" cutter with a 5HP motor? Why laguna doesn't at least offer a motor to match the build is beyond me, but if they want to be considered industrial, 5HP is the shallow end of the pool. If he wants to go new IMO Stiles Ironwood FX750 is a interesting direction to look for a commercial enterprise, and Stiles support is quite good. SCMI is a fine choice too.

On the cutters the dual chamfer head from garniga might do that but I don't see the radius being great enough to service the need. HSS is still a good value at the volumes he is discussing, a 2" corrugated back knife could be cut by any good grinding shop and incorporate both of those cuts into one knife, bull nose on the lower inch and quarter round on the upper edge would be my spec. Most of the insert tooling is metric, I'm guessing he could get the profiles ground in carbide for a euro block, or carbide corrugated if required. I though sure there was a stock insert option but can't find one. Insert heads with indexing are easier to set up for inexperienced users but no more effective IME at getting the work done, though stock inserts tend to be cheaper than a sharpening if available. Leitz might have an option worth discussing. http://www.leitztooling.com/profiling-profilcut.htm

[Rick Fisher]

I look at the SCM T-110 that JR posted .. The second one .. a 1996 in really nice shape. Its $3400 ..

I wonder how much it cost in 1996. I wonder what type of resale value that T-110 had in 18 years ..

At $3400.00 if its in decent shape, its not a bad deal..

[Carter Forbes]

Thanks for all the help. I have found several scmi 110 here locally from $1,200 to $1,900. From 6hp to 9. The
guy selling has five available. Powermatic power feed 1hp bareley used (in boxes) for $850.
In the meantime I've gotten new bits, all 1/2" shank , with larger bearings. My helper can get 1,500 feet routed very clean - three sides in 2.5 hours now. . I'm still going to get the shaper. I want the building first though.

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks for all the help. I have found several scmi 110 here locally from $1,200 to $1,900. From 6hp to 9. The
guy selling has five available. Powermatic power feed 1hp bareley used (in boxes) for $850.
In the meantime I've gotten new bits, all 1/2" shank , with larger bearings. My helper can get 1,500 feet routed very clean - three sides in 2.5 hours now. . I'm still going to get the shaper. I want the building first though.

Chanting "Shaper, Shaper Shaper...."

[Jeff Duncan]

If you were close to me I could hook you up with a good deal on a nice Martin similar to the one David posted! I think the SCM T-110's will certainly do the job, I've come close to buying one several times, they generally fetch about $2000 - $2500 at auction around here.

I haven't personally seen the laguna but if you watch the video's they post online I'm not sure that do have the build to support much more than a 5 hp motor? It certainly doesn't look like the beefiest quill I've ever seen. Not trying to bash them, just saying there may be better, (beefier), options for that kind of money.

JeffD