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Thread: The Sacrilege!

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian maybury View Post
    It's important too, because there's got to be room for expression if we're to stay open and not create some sort of woodworking orthodoxy (inquisition?) run by arbiters of 'rightness'. (as a race we've with our urge to judge/to blindly follow still got issues in this regard, but there's sizeable numbers coming through now that have figured this out) The resulting space makes it much easier to (as you guys suggest) be true to ourselves - to stay open and accomodating of (but not indiscriminately accepting of/brainwashed by) the various philosophies, methods, rationales and the like that come through. That way we truly get to choose (hopefully wisely), live our choices - and learn...
    Humans? Blindly follow each other?

    Pfffffffffft. . .get outta here!

    I think you forgot one little thing though, with blind following and judgement; humans have a strong need to be right and be on the popular side of the camp (though that goes along with following). 'Tis a rare person that's willing to stand on their own. I find it sad, to be frank.

    I mean, I don't know what CS was afraid about publishing the article. It's his opinion, he's entitled to it, and no one can take that from him.
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

    Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.

  2. #197
    I'll say this much despite my detraction, we are better off having CS in the business than we would be if he wasn't in the business. Every little bit helps, even if it causes us to quibble about the details.

  3. #198
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    Sorry if i seem to be pontificating Adam, but I guess we're all basically tribal/herd (troupe?) animals - our default patterns of social behaviour derived over millions of years from that, and from the naked pursuit of short term self advantage in that context. ( pursuit of some other things too!) Those that fancy their chances may have a go at being top of the pile, the rest tend to watch out for how the wind is blowing and position accordingly - doing their best to use the resulting pecking order and associations to gain advantage within the hierarchy and stay out of trouble. I guess we're in times now that require us to drop our default hierarchy in favour of more co-operative and intelligent ways of relating. Where the challenge is to rise above the former, to connect with something deeper, more individual and more nuanced. For the greater good.

    Pardon my doing it again David, but i suppose that something would be badly wrong if we didn't quibble - how else is it possible to sort out the better options? There's some that may interpret it as criticism, but what can be more helpful than genuine feedback, and open discussion and debate? The pity is that most of us (out of the above social conditioning - and often some hard experiences) tend habitually to be very cautious about expressing our genuinely held views/truths. Very threatened by anything that threatens beliefs we've chosen to cling on to too. I guess wisdom/judgement, courage and lack of attachment (as well as care for others) are important skills in this mix too...

    I think discussion can really only become unhealthy when it takes on the colour of having a go at somebody - by definitely passing judgement (in the put down/damaging sense) and/or attempting to force of our views/will on them. ...
    Last edited by ian maybury; 05-08-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #199
    I also like the quibbling, it's usually when you get people to actually make pure statements and think about what they're saying, though there's always enough people on a forum who want to avoid all conflict (even of any ideas).

    I get a lot of heat any time I say something about CS, but most of it has to do with what he does isn't my preference for what I want to learn. I could just be a polar endpoint and 90% of everyone would rather do what CS does or instructs than try to get the same thing out of woodworking that I try to get out of it. If that's the case, then so be it...I still want the same thing out of it, and like everyone else, would love if published information was tailored to what I like and want.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    I also like the quibbling, it's usually when you get people to actually make pure statements and think about what they're saying, though there's always enough people on a forum who want to avoid all conflict (even of any ideas).

    I get a lot of heat any time I say something about CS, but most of it has to do with what he does isn't my preference for what I want to learn. I could just be a polar endpoint and 90% of everyone would rather do what CS does or instructs than try to get the same thing out of woodworking that I try to get out of it. If that's the case, then so be it...I still want the same thing out of it, and like everyone else, would love if published information was tailored to what I like and want.
    And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that as I'm in the same boat.

    Some people, though, couldn't fathom telling CS "eff your way" because they really can't grasp that he started out at the bottom of the pile and crawled his way up, too.

    It's the same as when people criticize a religion, or any other belief. The following poops their pants, wads them up, and shoves them someplace dark because they can't grasp that what they like and believe isn't for everyone. Some people want to believe CS is a deity's gift to woodworking. Hey, great. Some want to believe our own George Wilson is the same. Hey, great. Personally, I believe they both started on the bottom and worked their way up and they won't shove their beliefs onto someone that wants to learn on their own as well.
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

    Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.

  6. #201
    On this board, I guess we have pope george and cardinal warren. That's as close as we're going to get to infallible advice for actually working the wood and discussing tasteful design elements.

  7. #202
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    200 replies and over 11,000 views. Clearly this is a topic many people are interested in and have strong opinions about.

    I love debate and vigorous disagreement. Whether I'm debating or listening to others, I always feel like I learn a lot. If one can't express and defend their point, I'm probably not going to be swayed. However, I can't count the number of times a clear, well articulated argument has caused me to question my stand on some point. That reexamination of known truths is, IMO, the source of wisdom.
    -- Dan Rode

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

  8. #203
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    Woodworking (at the level of doing) is a fantastic teacher in many ways. It's possible, but it's hard to (longer term anyway) as a woodworker ignore reality. It's a lot about setting aside our delusions and learning to connect (in a highly intuitive as well as intellectual manner) with the reality in front of us to come up with workable solutions. There's more than a few in politics, leadership positions and the like that could use a shop out the back…..

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