Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 170

Thread: Clear Vue Cyclone...

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    West of Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    5,815
    James, I'm really not picking on you, or just you. Multiple times over the years the material the ClearVue cyclone is made out of is spoken of this way. I wish we could at least specify what type of plastic this is. Using only the word plastic, and especially adding the term Mickey Mouse, doesn't accurately portray what this is. Ask any SWAT team member how they feel using plastic as their shield against rocks and bricks because that is the type of plastic used for the ClearVue cyclone. PTEG is pretty tough stuff, and not cheap by any means. At one time, and maybe still, PTEG was more expensive than steel. I would encourage all who feel this is a substandard cyclone to invite yourself over to see one in action. I think you might come away with a different view of this cyclone. Anyone in the DFW metroplex feel free to PM me. I'm sure I can easily set up a weekend viewing for you.
    Sorry in advance if I'm stirring something up, but I felt I had to set the record straight. Jim.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Conrad View Post
    For the cost, amount of time to build, plastic and MDF parts, the Clearvue always came off a bit Mickey Mouse compared to other quality DC options. If it works, great, but most of the quality DC company's out there have products on the same level of cost and performance. To each his own I suppose.
    Coolmeadow Setters...Exclusively Irish! When Irish Eyes are smiling....They're usually up to something!!
    Home of Irish Setter Rescue of North Texas.
    No, I'm not an electrician. Any information I share is purely what I would do myself. If in doubt, hire an electrician!
    Member of the G0691 fan club!
    At a minimum, I'm Pentatoxic...Most likely I'm a Pentaholic. There seems to be no known cure. Pentatonix, winners of The Sing Off, s3.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim O'Dell View Post
    Ask any SWAT team member how they feel using plastic as their shield against rocks and bricks because that is the type of plastic used for the ClearVue cyclone.
    No, riot shields are made from polycarbonate, not PETG. PETG has approx. 70% of the strength of polycarbonate. It is somewhere between acrylic and polycarbonate.

    I pointed that out to you back in 2008, but apparently you never noticed:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-Which-cyclone
    Last edited by Phil Thien; 01-05-2014 at 7:37 PM.

  3. #18
    Jim, I won't argue semantics on this one about the plastic used. But, it's still a pretty Mickey Mouse system for the price involved and having to invest time to build the thing out of MDF. If the cost was 30-50% less than a comparable system then I could see the merits of choosing it from a cost standpoint. Like I said, if it works for you - great, but for me it's kind of like paying the same price for a LN #8 except this one you have to assemble it yourself, flatten the sole, file the mouth, and the iron is made of lead... Not trying to pick on anyone either.
    Last edited by James Conrad; 01-05-2014 at 9:04 PM.
    "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Proust

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Does anyone know of any scientific study that compares Clearvue with other brands of dust collectors? I often read the praises of owners but, as I already said, that is not a reliable source of information. People always tend to brag on what they already own. I was just looking on the Clearvue website and the official assembly instructions say to inspect for leaks and fix if necessary. Why would I want to buy a brand new dust collector that requires me to find and fix leaks? I would prefer a unit that is designed not to leak in the first place.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    61
    I'll just chime in, since I finally got my CV1800 installed and up and running.

    On the plus side, it works very, very well. My goal was to move enough air to catch the fine dust, not just the visible sawdust; I understand up front that not everybody is in agreement on how important that is, but it was to me. That meant that I wanted to be moving at least 1000 CFM at my table saw, after 20+ feet of ducting, including turns and three wyes. Simple math made it hard to believe that that was going to be possible with less than a 5HP fan, so I went with ClearVue. Anyway, there's no point in arguing about whether such big numbers are necessary; it's what I wanted, and the CV1800 delivered (and comfortably exceeds my target numbers, actually).

    That said: the fit and finish on the Clearvue --- at least the one I got --- is pretty crummy. Definitely not in line with the price, even for a system which is basically a kit. The glue joints are sloppy, and the whole thing looks like it was thrown together rather carelessly. It was not easy to get the parts to mate properly, and afterward there were still gaps that needed to be filled with silicone caulk. Even the intake port is a lapped plastic joint, and not actually a circle! Ugh.

    When I ordered, they were having some production difficulties due to moving from one shop to another, and so maybe they were working fast to get through a backlog. Even so, there's no way around the fact that the general appearance of the plastic joints, the MDF work, etc, is pretty poor. So I absolutely can't disagree with somebody who looks at one and thinks it's not worth the price.

    In the end, I'm happy with purchase, because the performance I'm getting exceeds my (possibly absurdly high) goals. But for the price, I think it probably should have come assembled, or else come as a kit with much better fit and finish.

    -Janis

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    Does anyone know of any scientific study that compares Clearvue with other brands of dust collectors? I often read the praises of owners but, as I already said, that is not a reliable source of information. People always tend to brag on what they already own. I was just looking on the Clearvue website and the official assembly instructions say to inspect for leaks and fix if necessary. Why would I want to buy a brand new dust collector that requires me to find and fix leaks? I would prefer a unit that is designed not to leak in the first place.
    They aren't saying you should expect to find leaks. But checking for and fixing any leaks is best practice when setting up any DC. I think it is pretty unfair to criticize them for advising customers to be thorough.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    West of Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    5,815
    No I didn't. I probably thought I better stay away from the discussion before I said something I shouldn't and therefore never went back to look in. And we can both be right. See this, copied from the website http://www.colvin-friedman.com/Custom-Die-Cut-PETG.html

    Custom Die Cut PETG


    What is PETG? — Why Die-Cut PETG?

    PETG is Polyethylene Terephthalate Copolymer. Or Polyester Terephthalate Glycol
    Some Common trade names are: Vivak – Ultros
    PETG copolymer is a thermoplastic polyester that is clear, amorphous in all forms and has an excellent toughness. The gloss can be brought up to a hi shine or buffed to a dull finish. PETG has a high chemical resistance making it a good material for food. PETG is a tough plastic; PETG can be easily die-cut, drilled and fabricated create many product.
    PETG copolymers are available in extruded sheet or film and can be used where FDA compliance is required.
    PETG has an advantage over polycarbonate—It’s cleanly cut edge has\ no yellowing or discoloration.
    DIE CUTTING of PETG

    NUDECPETg sheet (up to 2mm) can be cut using a die with steel blade. You need to maintain a sharpness and strength to the blade for correct results. The die cutting press must be adjusted so each stroke completely slices through each of the plastic sheet. The blade must stop before hitting the cutting table to preserve the blade.

    We offer prototype services as well as pilot runs. No Die Cutting job is too big or too small, our only interest is in meeting your quality standards, for all your die cut parts or die cutting needs.
    Applications of PETG


    • Display cases and advertising applications such as signs and P.O.P. advertising of information Displays
    • Guards for fronts of machines
    • Vending and recreation machines
    • Signs
    • Medical equipment such as replacement parts for orthopedics
    • Protective shields (anti-riot shields)
    • All types of Building elements
    • Street furniture (vandal proof)
    • Containers and storage for Articles for food


    Other research shows that shields are indeed made from polycarbonate. But the distinction still needs to be made that this isn't some brittle "plastic" that is going to break the first time a chunk of wood hits it. That is my main issue. Jim.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    No, riot shields are made from polycarbonate, not PETG. PETG has approx. 70% of the strength of polycarbonate. It is somewhere between acrylic and polycarbonate.

    I pointed that out to you back in 2008, but apparently you never noticed:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-Which-cyclone
    Last edited by Jim O'Dell; 01-05-2014 at 10:55 PM.
    Coolmeadow Setters...Exclusively Irish! When Irish Eyes are smiling....They're usually up to something!!
    Home of Irish Setter Rescue of North Texas.
    No, I'm not an electrician. Any information I share is purely what I would do myself. If in doubt, hire an electrician!
    Member of the G0691 fan club!
    At a minimum, I'm Pentatoxic...Most likely I'm a Pentaholic. There seems to be no known cure. Pentatonix, winners of The Sing Off, s3.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    They aren't saying you should expect to find leaks. But checking for and fixing any leaks is best practice when setting up any DC. I think it is pretty unfair to criticize them for advising customers to be thorough.
    Based upon what Janis is reporting, it sounds like my original interpretation of their instructions was correct, whether Clearvue meant it that way or not.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    61
    Well, they do make it clear in the instructions that every seam needs to be sealed. It will definitely leak if you don't seal it.

    Which, honestly, is one part of the fit and finish that I can't blame on ClearVue... I have to think that all of the silicone caulk seams would look a bit better if they were done by someone who did them all day, as opposed to by me.

    Make no mistake though, once the thing is assembled and sealed and running, it really is a beast. I was getting close to 1900 CFM after attaching a single 10' length of 6" S&D PVC to the intake (via a 6" flexible coupling, which again had to be sealed with silicone, because as I mentioned the intake isn't actually cylindrical). I was also successful in containing the noise, but that's a whole other topic, and not specific to the dust collector itself.

    I'm not really familiar enough with the Oneida 5HP model to compare; it seems to put up numbers similar to what I'm getting, but perhaps the motor and filters are lower quality (ClearVue uses Leeson and Wynn, respectively, which are tough to beat). But assuming they are similar in quality to the ClearVue motor and filters, I would pay the extra $300 just to get a cyclone that works out of the box.

    -Janis

    EDIT: Out of curiosity, I just checked the Oneida site. It appears that their filters have a higher MERV rating than the ClearVue's; but on the other hand, they only have 100 sq. ft. of filter, as opposed to 600 sq. ft. on the ClearVue. Another big difference is that the Oneida seems to work on a standard 220V circuit; whereas the Leeson motor in the CV1800 required a dedicated 30A circuit. So probably it's not so easy to make a direct comparison between the two, and in any event I didn't mean to start an Oneida vs. ClearVue discussion. I should have just said I'd have gladly paid another $300 for an assembled CV1800. :-)
    Last edited by Janis Stipins; 01-06-2014 at 1:21 AM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,700
    Magazines editors as I found out when I spoke to a few of them have zero knowledge of good dust collection and retention and tend to look at older articles as a jumping off point. I have yet to see an editor seek the advice of anyone who might have some knowledge before publishing stuff like this. If the facts as stated were to be universal for all clearvues then they would not be in business. Oneida apparently have a track record of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story when it suits them but I am not saying that they had influence in this instance.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Magazines editors as I found out when I spoke to a few of them have zero knowledge of good dust collection and retention and tend to look at older articles as a jumping off point. I have yet to see an editor seek the advice of anyone who might have some knowledge before publishing stuff like this. If the facts as stated were to be universal for all clearvues then they would not be in business. Oneida apparently have a track record of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story when it suits them but I am not saying that they had influence in this instance.
    First and foremost, most writers and editors for these types of magazines are journalists. Degreed journalists. And there is nothing wrong with that, my father was a journalist. BUT, journalists are not (usually) engineers, they are not scientists, they are not typically experts in anything but "The Elements of Style" (and that can be a stretch).

    So they are journalists first, and woodworkers second, typically. And again, that is okay.

    But to trust that they will be able to devise a test method that isolates worthwhile variables and reliably measure them? Well, that just isn't their core strength.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    Based upon what Janis is reporting, it sounds like my original interpretation of their instructions was correct, whether Clearvue meant it that way or not.
    So you're unwilling to accept anecdotal reports when it comes to the effectiveness of the units, but are entirely willing to cite same when it comes to what you perceive as problems. Great, nothing like being consistent (sarcasm).

    There have been numerous reports of leaks on cyclones made from steel, even on the pressure side, on these very forums, Art. Also leaks on the suck side, which would reduce separation efficiency.

    So it seems you want to disparage the outfit encouraging customers to find and seal leaks, and in doing so reward vendors that don't mention leaks at all.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    1,544
    I have neither the CV or Oneida systems, so this is a truly unbiased opinion.

    Since they stated that the CV returned that much more dust, it sounds like a leak or problem with the filter. As far as leaks, I think it would be typical for the sealing of any "field joint" (joint made by the installer) to be the responsibility of the installer. If there are leaks in the manufacturer's equipment or factory joints, or manufacturing defects that would not allow a field joint to be sealed using normal methods, then that is a different story.

    As far as the magazine tests and picking a "winner", that method, in my opinion is inherently flawed. A DC is not like a tablesaw or other power tool we buy. A DC's performance, after assembly and setup per the manufacturer's instructions, is directly related to the duct system provided by the end-user. Whereas a tablesaw's performance is more controlled by the equipment itself and much less dependant on the ancillary installation. With DC's, there are too many variables that affect "performance" (performance is also not usually clearly defined) and a given DC may operate better for a different system. In otherwords, a CV may be the best choice for one situation, and an Oneida may be a better choice for another system. The magazine articles would better serve us to provide the DC specs such as DP, flow vs. SP performance curves, ease of installation, ease of maintenance, etc. Picking a "winner" is somewhat subjective and very dependant on the test system.

    Mike

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Magazines editors as I found out when I spoke to a few of them have zero knowledge of good dust collection and retention and tend to look at older articles as a jumping off point. I have yet to see an editor seek the advice of anyone who might have some knowledge before publishing stuff like this. If the facts as stated were to be universal for all clearvues then they would not be in business. Oneida apparently have a track record of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story when it suits them but I am not saying that they had influence in this instance.
    The writers of the original Wood magazine article acquired the services of a couple of engineers, neither of whom were connected with Oneida or any other dust collection company, to help them obtain the right measurement equipment and set up the experiments. It didn't say much about their credentials but I expect they are at least as legitimate as of those of Bill Pentz, who is not an engineer but designed the Clearvue system.

    Edit: Don't you think that maybe it is a little unfair to criticize the authors of an article which you obviously haven't read?
    Last edited by Art Mann; 01-06-2014 at 3:51 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    So you're unwilling to accept anecdotal reports when it comes to the effectiveness of the units, but are entirely willing to cite same when it comes to what you perceive as problems. Great, nothing like being consistent (sarcasm).

    There have been numerous reports of leaks on cyclones made from steel, even on the pressure side, on these very forums, Art. Also leaks on the suck side, which would reduce separation efficiency.

    So it seems you want to disparage the outfit encouraging customers to find and seal leaks, and in doing so reward vendors that don't mention leaks at all.
    When I mentioned anecdotal evidence, I brought up two objections. The first one is that it is impossible, without accurate measurement equipment and repeatable conditions, to make valid comparisons of one unit over another. That is a simple fact. The second objection I had is that owners tend to believe in and therefore unduly favor the products they are already invested in. That is just human nature. You will note that, in the case of Janis, he did not favor the Clearvue as far as fit and finish is concerned, but rather offered some very legitimate and believable criticisms. You can believe whomever you like but I tend to place more credence in what people say who offer honest criticisms as well as praise for the things they own and use. All anecdotal evidence is not created equal.

    I am indeed being a little unfair to Clearvue based on the fact that what they are selling is not a dust collection system but rather a kit the performance of which depends to a large extent on the skill and care of the person who builds it. I would also say that people like the authors of the Wood article have a right and even obligation to point that out.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •