Clear Vue Cyclone...

[Frank Pratt]

I know this is old, but, just to correct art mann, Bill Pentz is definitely an engineer. Not sure how you missed that one. Have you read anything he has written? It’s pretty obvious, being an engineer myself, that he IS an engineer, even before he tells you that he is. It disgusts me when people don’t take the time to research, but spout their mouths off, conveying bad knowedge to be spread around the internet. He has THREE engineering degrees along with countless other accolades. I built his plans over 10 years ago, and have nothing but respect and admiration for such an accomplished individual who chose not money, but to share what he had learned so that others could stay safe and not endanger their health, as he had. My cyclone, even being built by me, has performed flawless over all those years. It wasn’t until I visited a friends shop that I realized what fine dust and a scary, messy hazard could be created, without a cyclone.

Mike

So, you join this forum just so you can use your first post to trash someone over some 5 year old comments? I don't know @Art Mann, or have even read this long thread, but you really are not contributing anything here & maybe you should just move on.

[Michael Overbey]

Art, yes he also has a biomedical engineering degree and not sure of the third. I think if you do the research you’ll find he has done his. Clearvue was a company that came later. He did not start the website nor the research in order to start a company. They approached him about building the cyclones since Bill wasn’t interested. If someone approached you, wouldn’t you endorse it for a $$cut, especially when you don’t want the business of building them?? I would. As far as why he was kicked off the site, there are two sides to every story. I guess we all reach our own conclusions.

Frank,

YOUR comment lends nothing to the discussion. Did you look at my join date? Know how to read?? Maybe, just maybe I read a lot and don’t post much....hmmm, ever opened your mind to think about the math on that one. Trash someone?? Really?? I’m CLARIFYING a BIG wrong on Bills MULTIPLE degrees. Maybe you should go read and report back, before accusing me a trashing someone. Again! That’s how bad information gets passed around the internet. Maybe you should move on....and do your research before speaking, like some of us.

Mike

[Art Mann]

I was there. I read his original posts. I am one of many who thought his comments were unprofessional and inappropriate. His absence was not generally missed.

If I endorsed a company representing myself as a technical expert, I would feel compelled to tell my readers up front if I had a financial interest in endorsing the product. Anyone who would do otherwise has no ethics. You can, of course, live however you like. Thanks for the warning.

If someone approached you, wouldn’t you endorse it for a $$cut, especially when you don’t want the business of building them?? I would. As far as why he was kicked off the site, there are two sides to every story. I guess we all reach our own conclusions.
Mike

[Michael Overbey]

Art,

I know only heresay as most of that has been erased. I built my cyclone long before clear vue was put together. I’m sure we could go on and on and may never know the truth or whole story. I agree with your comments on disclosure, but again don’t know the whole story. What I don’t understand is how you know all of this but still failed to recognize Bill as an engineer? I’m a ME, you an EE.. I’m sure you recognize the “speak” very clearly. Was this of spite, or truly you didn’t research him? I did my full research before investing in a DC, including who was writing the information and what their qualifications were. I’ve yet to find any one individual possessing more qualifications and investing the time required to promote dust collection standards to the home hobbyist woodworker, as well as other small businesses. And for that, I thank him. I know few individuals who would go to that extent, without requiring payment(donations were accepted). IF he was in it to make money, it would have been clear from the beginning to the present. His site is still up, FREE. So, I may not know the whole story, but I can stand back, use common sense, and see the picture being painted. So for those all caught up in the “not-disclosing interest” theme, I ask you is that one detail so important that you can’t see past it? Given the facts, do you really think Bill is only out to make money? What have you or anyone else done to promote the dust collection and education of it to the home hobbyist?

My original post was only to clarify that not only IS Bill Pentz an engineer, but that he has several degrees. It really bothers me, given what he has contributed to the home hobbyist, that people will discount him, defame him, and find fault with anything relative to what he has given back. See the big picture.

Mike

[Alan Schaffter]

I have been a member here since 2003 and Badger Pond before that, as well as a number of other woodworking forums. I can proudly say, like many in the day, I was also temporary banned from Badger Pond by the sawdust Nazi who ran that site (In my case it was for trying to help a fellow woodworker.) I have corresponded with Jim Halbert (despite the Oneida patent which came years later, he was the one who really invented the mini-cyclone, which he posted about, and which was therefore in the public domain and technically not patentable!) and Bill since those early days. I was one of the (the) first to incorporate the spiral inlet ramp and a longer cone into the Wood cyclone design before building Bill's design. I have corresponded with Bill on and off since those days. We, along with Michael Standish, a woodworking author, were in the early stages of writing the definitive dust collection book, which included our bios. which I have.

All I can say is NOBODY posting here knows Bill's full story and more than a few have made incorrect assumptions and flat out wrong statements and timelines. And, if you have followed the development of the Oneida cyclone from their early disastrous filter in the middle design to their current designs, it is clear they and to some degree Grizzly, years later eventually incorporated all of the improvements Bill introduced, e.g. longer cone, neutral vane, spiral inlet ramp, angled rectangular inlet. As to the relationship with ClearVue (first with Ed Morgano and then the Bushey Brothers), since Bills design is not patented, they were under no obligation to compensate him for his design- but they valued his participation so have done so anyway. As to Bill's problems with forums, you can debate that all you want, but what is fact, is that while Bill is arguably a bit of a zealot and not always politically correct, he has posted more useful dust collection information than any other hobby or professional woodworker (initially at his personal expense), most of what he claimed has eventually been proven correct, his design works, and no small point- the forums involved are partially supported by advertising dollars from his competition/critics.

[Matt Mattingley]

I have been a member here since 2003 and Badger Pond before that, as well as a number of other woodworking forums. I can proudly say, like many in the day, I was also temporary banned from Badger Pond by the sawdust Nazi who ran that site (In my case it was for trying to help a fellow woodworker.) I have corresponded with Jim Halbert (despite the Oneida patent which came years later, he was the one who really invented the mini-cyclone, which he posted about, and which was therefore in the public domain and technically not patentable!) and Bill since those early days. I was one of the (the) first to incorporate the spiral inlet ramp and a longer cone into the Wood cyclone design before building Bill's design. I have corresponded with Bill on and off since those days. We, along with Michael Standish, a woodworking author, were in the early stages of writing the definitive dust collection book, which included our bios. which I have.

All I can say is NOBODY posting here knows Bill's full story and more than a few have made incorrect assumptions and flat out wrong statements and timelines. And, if you have followed the development of the Oneida cyclone from their early disastrous filter in the middle design to their current designs, it is clear they and to some degree Grizzly, years later eventually incorporated all of the improvements Bill introduced, e.g. longer cone, neutral vane, spiral inlet ramp, angled rectangular inlet. As to the relationship with ClearVue (first with Ed Morgano and then the Bushey Brothers), since Bills design is not patented, they were under no obligation to compensate him for his design- but they valued his participation so have done so anyway. As to Bill's problems with forums, you can debate that all you want, but what is fact, is that while Bill is arguably a bit of a zealot and not always politically correct, he has posted more useful dust collection information than any other hobby or professional woodworker (initially at his personal expense), most of what he claimed has eventually been proven correct, his design works, and no small point- the forums involved are partially supported by advertising dollars from his competition/critics.

ALAN, Bill Pentz, Ed............ and a few dozen others that worked on the complex design, I actually put it to the challenge. I actually designed my own blower in and around the unit. I over built the design of the blower with minimal weight and kept most of the specs true. I’ve built the whole unit out of stainless steel including the blower.

The funny thing is is I built the whole unit on my hobby time for under $1000, including most of the duck work and a blast gates.


Great post ALAN!

[Patrick McCarthy]

Amazing how informative Alan’s post is, and he did it without bashing anyone.
Not even a hint of trolling.

Alan, ditto re the great post comment from Matt

[Frank Pratt]

Amazing how informative Alan’s post is, and he did it without bashing anyone.
Not even a hint of trolling.

Alan, ditto re the great post comment from Matt

You're right Patrick. I should just ignore the trolls. My comments certainly did not help any. Sorry about that guys.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Frank, no apology needed. And my comment was not prompted by anything in your post . . . .hope that was obvious.
Best, Patrick

[Matt Mattingley]

So let’s get to the real bits and pieces. Does Clearview really deliver what they’re bragging about??? I’ve personally tested a clear view system and it was not what I would consider real #’s. I have not tested the new Clearview system. But I think Clearview is being a little shady on their numbers too but they’re being more upfront than any other! This is just my observation....

I’m pretty sure it’s a competitive market.

[John Kee]

So let’s get to the real bits and pieces. Does Clearview really deliver what they’re bragging about??? I’ve personally tested a clear view system and it was not what I would consider real #’s. I have not tested the new Clearview system. But I think Clearview is being a little shady on their numbers too but they’re being more upfront than any other! This is just my observation....

I’m pretty sure it’s a competitive market.

Well Matt when I had my CV1800 I did test the numbers. My unit was from the Ed Morgano era. The test was done with a set of clean, seasoned filters (approx one year of everyday use), the duct work was all 6" PVC. My BIL works in the HVAC and part of his job entails testing airflow in test chambers for a major pharmaceutical company. He doesn't use a $50.00 low airflow meter. The unit he uses has a 4" fan and is sent out for yearly calibration. At 10' of straight pipe the reading was 1500 CFM, this seems to be one of the revised lengths most manufactures tests are done at. At 45' of pipe with multiple 45 degree elbows the reading was 1130 CFM and at 62' of pipe it was 1000 CFM. Another reading we took at 45' of pipe with 10' of 5" flex pipe averaged 1000 CFM. Don't really think they are inflating too many numbers. As a side note the test was repeated again approx 3 years later when I changed my system from Clearvue to a Felder RL160. The RL160 is another story. The filters were the newer spun bond type with a hepa rating and also well seasoned. The readings were in the same ballpark with most being 20 to 30 CFM higher. As with everything you read on the internet you are free to believe what you want.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Bill Pence, or anyone of this generation did not invent the cyclone. Drive down any old agrarian lane and you'll likely see some old farm dinosaur of 150 years ago sticking their cyclonic heads up above the weeds. The concept was used many generations before us, invented by someone who's name was lost to history, and simply appropriated by this generation as their own discovery. Forget honoring Pence's legacy, let's give credit where it is due, to the poor unknown sod who's work he and all the "cyclone gurus" of the current generation are appropriating.

[John Kee]

Bill Pence, or anyone of this generation did not invent the cyclone. Drive down any old agrarian lane and you'll likely see some old farm dinosaur of 150 years ago sticking their cyclonic heads up above the weeds. The concept was used many generations before us, invented by someone who's name was lost to history, and simply appropriated by this generation as their own discovery. Forget honoring Pence's legacy, let's give credit where it is due, to the poor unknown sod who's work he and all the "cyclone gurus" of the current generation are appropriating.

Found this on the internet with a simple search, fortunately the name is not lost to history "The first “cyclonic separator” was patented in 1885 by the American John M. Finch, for use as a “dust collector” in his Knickerbocker Company". I believe the patent has probably run out. Bill Pentz never took credit for the initial design, only what he and many others believe to be a more efficient design that aided in better collection of the most harmful dust.

[John K Jordan]

So let’s get to the real bits and pieces. Does Clearview really deliver what they’re bragging about??? I’ve personally tested a clear view system and it was not what I would consider real #’s. I have not tested the new Clearview system. But I think Clearview is being a little shady on their numbers too but they’re being more upfront than any other! This is just my observation....

I’m pretty sure it’s a competitive market.

I had no way to do side-by-side comparison tests but purchased based on considerable reading. I decided it would do what I wanted and the price was good compared to the other options available at the time. I'm not the least disappointed. The real-bits performance of the 5hp machine is incredible, in my opinion. I have to be careful at the lathe not do drop something I don't want to have to dig through the bin to recover. Maybe they are all like this now. I do know I wouldn't want a smaller motor.

JKJ

[Doug Dawson]

The real-bits performance of the 5hp machine is incredible, in my opinion.

Oh, so THAT'S what you have that is louder than a freight train at ten paces and can potentially cause hearing damage. :^) I would build an acoustically sealed room around that too.