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Thread: New Grizzly 514X2 Band Saw

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    SW Colorado
    Posts
    10

    New Grizzly 514X2 Band Saw

    I have been reading this Forum for several years, using other folk's experiences to inform my equipment purchases.

    I recently joined so that I could share my experiences with a GO 514X2 Grizzly Band Saw that is currently sitting out in my shop waiting to get picked up for return, as well as get some feedback on what is normal and what is not.

    In summary (fuller details below) the machine may have been damaged when it fell over face forward in a truck (the top 1/3 of the five slats on the front side of the crate were broken off and the styrofoam was broken/fallen into crate), but it is not clear if that is what causes this saw to shake so terribly. Looking at the front side of the band saw, the spine of the frame (just left of the switches) appears to be fairly straight. The left end of the saw frame (backbone of the spine) is slightly bent in the direction the sawblade pulls when tensioned (1/8" rocker in a 4' straight edge placed at the top). The wheels appear to be fairly well balanced but out of round (1/16'+ for bottom wheel). Other than small scratchs and paint rubbed off the front of the spine above the key, no other cosmetic damage is apparent (doors not dented, etc.).

    The top wheel can easily be adjusted to center the blade on both wheels, but when the blade is centered the wheels are not coplanar. When the top wheel is adjusted to make the wheels coplanar the teeth of the supplied 3/4" blade slightly overhangs the tire on the top wheel and is only slightly inside the tire on the lower wheel. Is this unusual? It does not appear that any wider blade could be used without correcting something structural...shim wheel(s)? Machine is supposed to be able to run up to a 1.25" blade.

    Which is more important: centering the blade or have the wheels coplanar? Neither adjustment seemed to lessen the shaking. All four corners were firmly in contact with a level concrete slab (I read the December 2012 Thread on vibration/floor levelling). Replacment machine is supposed to be shipped sometime after they get this one picked up...I imagine it wil eventually happen, but Grizzly has not met the timelines they have given me so far, and I have had to initiate all contacts but one. Thanks for any suggestions.

    Full timeline below for those who want to wade through it.

    12/09/2013
    Order Placed Online

    12/19/2013
    Bandsaw Delivered from Springfield MO to southwestern CO w/ damage as noted:

    When this G514X2 Bandsaw was delivered on December 19, 2013 the top 1/3 of the front side of the crate was broken off and missing. When I signed to acknowledge delivery I noted in writing the above damage, that it appeared that the machine had fallen over, and that it was possible the frame was bent.

    Before attempting to uncrate and assemble the G514X2 I called and spoke with Grizzly customer service representative Josh, to find out if I should hold the machine for return shipping, or should put it together and see if it worked properly. After conferring with a supervisor, Josh returned to the line and suggested I assemble the bandsaw, but do my best to save what was left of the crate in case it had to be returned.

    I emailed photos of the crated machine as I received it, to Grizzly on December 19.

    12/25/2013
    I completed assembly on December 25. When turned on the bandsaw shakes terribly from front to back. I went through most of troubleshooting suggestions in the manual (align/tension blade, proper tension of drive belt, not rubbing anywhere, solid on floor, etc.) to no avail.

    12/26/2013
    I called and eventually was able to speak to Grizzly technical representative Larry on December 26. I re-described the damage that was apparent when I received the machine. Larry had no access to the photos I had sent in the week before...this seems like a weakness in Grizzly’s internal communication that should be simple to improve. In any event, after rehashing the situation and how it acts (the bandsaw shakes violently front-to-back from the table up, the base remains solidly on the floor) and explaining what I had examined so far, Larry suggested I remove the blade and see if the shaking changed. He also suggested I make the coplanar gauge described in the owners manual. Larry assured me that someone else would call me to follow up with a resolution of the problem.

    After I got off the phone with Larry I followed his suggestion and removed the blade. There was about a four-fold decrease in the shaking, though the machine still vibrated noticeably. I also made and used the coplanar gauge he and the owner’s manual described: if the top wheel was adjusted so that the wheels were coplanar the teeth of the supplied ¾” wide blade overhung the tire on the top wheel slightly, while the teeth were just inside the edge of the tire on the lower wheel. Aligning the wheels did not reduce the vibration. Also of concern was the fact the blade could not be centered unless the wheels were adjusted to not be coplanar. The owner’s manual gives instructions on centering the blade, and later on making the wheels coplanar, but I did not see instructions on how to achieve both, or which was more important.

    Based on my observations the wheels appear to be fairly well balanced but out of round: more than 1/16” of runout on the bottom wheel. Placing a 4’ straightedge at the top of the spine, on the front side of the machine, on the edge just left of the key/switches, showed that side of the frame to be relatively straight. Placing a 4’ straight edge at the top on the spine, on the left edge of the saw (the backbone side of the frame, the side that is tensioned when the blade is tightened), the straightedge rested on a high place and rocked a strong 1/8” from end to end.

    12/27/2013
    Larry with Grizzly customer service (not the technician Larry I had spoken to on 12/26) called me and suggested they pick up the original machine and ship me a replacement. I explained that I was only willing to try another machine if he would promise that it would be assembled and tested before shipment…I was not willing to invest the amount of time I have spent on this machine on another one without that condition. Larry told me he could ensure the new machine was tested before shipment and I agreed to try another one. Larry told me I would be contacted by someone at Grizzly shipping within 24 hours to arrange the return.

    12/30/2013
    Three days had passed without any contact from Grizzly so I phoned again and was passed from Ruth to George. George left the line for a while (I think he said he was checking with Robert) because he could not tell from my activity file what was going on. He came back on the line and said that nothing had happened because no one at Grizzly had entered my email address (they had it all along and he read it to me) into the activity file. He also told me someone from Grizzly shipping would contact me with return shipping details. As of today (January 1, 2014) I still have not received any email updates from Grizzly, so I do not understand how that could have presented any delay.

    A woman from Grizzly shipping called me later 12/30/2013 to say that SAIA trucking should call me within 24 hours with return shipping arrangments. She also explained that the replacement saw would not ship until the original one was picked up. 48 hours later nothing has happened. SAIA only serves my area on Thursdays, so if it is not scheduled for 01/02/2014 it will not happen until 01/09/2014.

    This afternoon (01/01/2014) I emailed Grizzly ORD explaining that I looked forward to hearing from someone at Grizzly that they had contacted SAIA and SAIA will call me to schedule a pick up of the saw tomorrow.
    Last edited by Bob Ball; 01-01-2014 at 6:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Bob, no dog in your fight but I would be patient. Shipping machines is my business as well and I understand your frustration but to be honest, it seems to me like they are not dropping the ball on you.

    If Grizzly is anything like the rest of the machinery sales industry, the week between Christmas and the NYE is one of the busiest of the year. It looks like we are talking about a period of three or four days, correct? And more than likely, there will not be anybody there on 1/1/2014. Arranging pickup of machines from a customer's location is always time consuming, as well, due to the fact that they have to dispatch a truck just for your cargo and it is not Grizzly's fault that Saia only dlivers to your location once a week. Again, I am not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated but on the other hand (and I am not trying to be cute by saying this...), you bought a piece of industrial machinery and are dealing with LTL freight, not Amazon.com. In other words, it could be any manufacturer you purchased a big machine from and if all this is happening around the holidays, it just adds more time. I would just be patient and work with them to get your new machine.

    Just my 2-cents and best of luck with it.

    Erik Loza
    Minimax USA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Misawa, Japan. Summers in Virginia.
    Posts
    300
    During the Holiday season I think Grizzly is providing you better service than I would have expected. I have always been happy with all of my Grizzly tools. Although I have been fortunate that the tools always worked well out of the crate, the shippers had not always treated the crate well.

    You say the bandsaw spine bends slightly when the blade is tensioned. For that type of frame, that would seem to be a problem to me, although I have never used a straight edge on my 0513x2.

    Stick with it, I think you will enjoy the 0514 when you get it set up.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,492
    Blog Entries
    1
    Although there have been a few other reports over the years (like you can count them on one hand) of Griz bandsaws shaking most have not had this experience. I base this opinion on threads here as well as the fact that no business can sustain itself if they deliver mostly problems. I have been very fortunate with large deliveries from different suppliers. It is important to understand that once the product leaves the warehouse, the seller has little direct control over how things are handled. The failure of the transport company to call ahead, meet the timeframe and so forth is all on them. FedEx Freight, UPS and third parties have all done a great job out here along the left coast. I do read enough to know that this is not the case everywhere.

    Based on my experience with damage free deliveries, I would have refused the saw. However, if I had not been "trained" to expect things to arrive in good shape, I probably would have noted the damage and accepted the shipment as well. Unfortunately, once the item is in your shop, everything involved with managing the logistics of resolving a problem falls to you. The good news is that Grizzly has a good reputation of resolving problems. Your case sounds pretty clear cut as to damage during shipping. My G0513X is so smooth I sometimes leave it running and have to go back to power it down. Many other happy owners of similar Grizzly saws post similar positive experiences here and I am sure they will resolve things for you. It is the hassle and the delays that make the experience painful.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 01-01-2014 at 9:13 PM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  5. #5
    not to HiJack the thread but a simple question ,
    at what point of damage does one choose to refuse a delivery of a machine ?
    Band saws seem to be a problem item anyway they are tall & sorta top heavy , a Band Saw that has been dropped over inside a trailer is likely damaged big time .
    I've been a mover & a semi-driver for a long time in a past lifetime , the tall heavy stuff always scared me any time I put my brakes on ( step on the brakes wait for the 'Boom' sound ) I'd strap the heck outta the tall items but these days the trucking companies that vendors like Grizzley & worse vendor resale companies hire don't want to spend $$ on straps OR even install the rails in the trailers to hook a strap to . Most of this damage is not done by the long haul drivers but the local delivery truckers ( sometimes they are the bottom of the barrel , low bid type of guys ) or the damage is at the time of off loading / loading done at the local terminal . Many times we'd get a damaged crate & the dispatcher would say take it out for delivery anyway & see if customer will sign for it .
    Mike >............................................/ Maybe I'm doing this Babysitting Gig to throw off the Authorities \................................................<

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Palm Bay Florida, Warner Robins Georgia, and Nigeria, Africa
    Posts
    349
    I have had a number of new machines delivered over the last few months. Big machines. Never a problem, so I feel for you because I would be in deep trouble if I had to send back or refuse delivery. (I am currently working a six-week on, six-week off schedule in Nigeria, and spend some of my off time in Germany where my wife is stationed in the Air Force). As a result, I have to schedule deliveries on a very tight schedule in Florida.

    Here's a few pictures of recent deliveries. All on pallets, with liftgate service, and never an issue with a driver getting them up the driveway to my garage....all without damage.

    Best of luck getting your issue solved in a expedited manner!

    Pics: Laguna 14X14 SUV Bandsaw, Laguna Italian LT20 Bandsaw, Hammer A3-41 Jointer/Planer

    Boxed Laguna 14SUV.JPGBoxed Laguna LT20.JPGA3-41 Pallet.jpg
    Choosing Windows 7/8 over Apple OSX and IOS is sort of like choosing Harbor Freight tools over Festool!

    “They come from the desert, but it is we who have our heads in the sand.”
    Ben Weingarten

  7. #7
    I have a 514x2 and it passes the "nickel on its edge test" out of the box. I would expect no less.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Mnts.of Va.
    Posts
    615
    High mileage 514 here.The only time we ever noticed any excess vibes was a year or so ago.One of the leveling shims/feet had somehow become MIA?Saw was shaking....looked for causes,found it....machined a replacement,got back to work.

    We get a few Grizz machines through here for use and repair.Factory support has been above avg,I'd say.Yes,they could be a little better....but then,can't we all?Good luck with yours.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Barstow View Post
    I have a 514x2 and it passes the "nickel on its edge test" out of the box. I would expect no less.
    Mine too.

    Brian, what leveling shims are you talking about? Is this something that you put underneath the saw?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Mnts.of Va.
    Posts
    615
    John,nuthin fancy........ours is nested next to a brick column.It has a cpl big shapers nested in as well(the shapers are back to back,can share the power feed this way).The BS is dialed in for table height,to utilize one of the shaper tables for outfeed.

    IMO,and the next time we have the saw down for any "real" repairs......we're going to fill the price point base(sheet metal,thats barely thick enough,and does cause vibration),with concrete.Honestly can't excuse why we didn't when the dang thing came into the shop?Been filling bases with crete for so long it's sort of an automatic........probably in a hurry?You can push a 514 and watch the base flex.....which is what worked the "foot" out of ours.....where it went after that,have to ask the French maid?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian W Smith View Post
    John,nuthin fancy........ours is nested next to a brick column.It has a cpl big shapers nested in as well(the shapers are back to back,can share the power feed this way).The BS is dialed in for table height,to utilize one of the shaper tables for outfeed.

    IMO,and the next time we have the saw down for any "real" repairs......we're going to fill the price point base(sheet metal,thats barely thick enough,and does cause vibration),with concrete.Honestly can't excuse why we didn't when the dang thing came into the shop?Been filling bases with crete for so long it's sort of an automatic........probably in a hurry?You can push a 514 and watch the base flex.....which is what worked the "foot" out of ours.....where it went after that,have to ask the French maid?
    Mine has the same problem. What I did with mine is bought one of those kits to build your own mobile base, and then I bolted the saw to it...I drilled right through the metal parts of the mobile base. What's nice is it elevates the saw to a more comfortable height, and it has levelers now too That ridiculous base causes a lot of problems if it's not immobilized somehow.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    832
    Hindsight speaking here
    This is why you inspect the delivery before you sign. It does not sound like the damage was hidden. Refuse the shipment. As this is shipping damage Grizzly is not responsible but because they are a standup company, they will take care of you. Not meaning to spank you, just adding perspective.

    What assembly does the 514 require beyond the table? I ask only because my 513x2 required nothing else.
    Chuck

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    SW Colorado
    Posts
    10
    Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I chose to accept the machine because there was no apparent damage to the machine, only to the packaging/crate. It may have been a mistake.

    I still cannot find any direct evidence that the fall resulted in the terrible shaking, though it may have. No welds appear cracked and no paint is cracked from a bend in the steel after painting, only a few scratches/painted rubbed off above the switches. The frame on the side the machine apparently fell on appears straight. The wheels appear balanced but out of round, something the tip-over does not seem it could have influenced since the doors and case sides were not dented.

    I would have to agree that Grizzly is probably giving good service given the time of year, just a little frustrating when they volunteer time frames they do not meet. Maybe they have a script or instructions to always promise 24 hour service, even when circumstances prevent them from meeting that. I did just receive a call from Jessica with Grizzly shipping as I was typing. She had already spoken to SAIA trucking this morning and they told her they would call me and schedule the pick up tomorrow. A pleasant surprise as they always insist they only service this area on Thursdays...maybe a one day push back for the holiday off. I did get a 490X jointer from Grizzly in 2012 that I am satisfied with; I did not need or ask for any parts, but they did call me back and explain how to reassemble some preassemblies that vibrated apart before that machine was delivered to me

    Any observations on my questions about the relative values of centering the band saw blade on the wheels versus adjusting the wheels to run coplanar? Thanks again for the help.

  14. #14
    I personally don't think there's any advantage to being coplaner, and there's maybe even an advantage to NOT being coplaner When you get the new saw, track it so the gullets on the top wheel are running a little in front of the peak of the crown, and call it a day...IMHO.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by John Coloccia View Post
    I personally don't think there's any advantage to being coplaner, and there's maybe even an advantage to NOT being coplaner When you get the new saw, track it so the gullets on the top wheel are running a little in front of the peak of the crown, and call it a day...IMHO.
    +1 I recently saw a video by one of the Carter show demo guys who claims that the wheels do not need to be coplanar. Some are, some are not, depending on the manufacturer. Agree with John just track the blade so the gullets on the top wheel are centered on the crown. Works for me. Made a huge difference in re-saw quality.

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