Light bulb insanity

[Mel Fulks]

One thing that has made it easier for me to do without the bulbs is that years ago they lowered the quality . When they had those tungsten filaments they lasted a long time. When one finally blew out the family didn't have any extra ones, had to go and buy ONE. And they would look a little different and have different graphics. Now the slightest jostle does them in. This reminds me of an old joke. How many Virginians does it take to change a lightbulb ? Four. One to do the work ,and three to talk about how good the OLD bulb was.

[Duane Meadows]

Well you could still use your old bulbs at the higher electric rate

Yep, that's about the size of it!

[Pat Barry]

When a forward thinker like Dean Kamen discontinued use of incandescent lights in all his facilities, including his own personal island -
that says a great deal about the validity of the choice. He does it because the incandescent bulb generates more heat than light from any watt consumed

Jim, was it arleady hot enough on his personal island that the heat from all his incandescent bulbs was causing his air conditioning bill to skyrocket?

[Andrew Joiner]

One thing that has made it easier for me to do without the bulbs is that years ago they lowered the quality . When they had those tungsten filaments they lasted a long time. When one finally blew out the family didn't have any extra ones, had to go and buy ONE. And they would look a little different and have different graphics. Now the slightest jostle does them in. This reminds me of an old joke. How many Virginians does it take to change a lightbulb ? Four. One to do the work ,and three to talk about how good the OLD bulb was.

I'm not from Virginia, but I like the old bulbs. Here's some 110 watt incandescent bulbs with an 18 year life and only $2 each http://www.mcmaster.com/#light-bulbs/=pt8q6e

[David C. Roseman]

Steve,since you mentioned the rough service bulbs . I noticed one day that our auto mechanic was using a cfl bulb in a trouble light under a car. When I commented that I thought it would break easily ,he intentionally dropped it a few inches onto the concrete and told me they are more unbreakable than the rough service standard bulbs and cheaper(if bought at Costco. I have found that to be true. Tired of those delicate halogen lights with portable oven-like heat, I made a shop light out of foam insulation. Octagon shape with one cfl in the middle. The 'bulb' is surrounded by two layers of angled mirrors. Diffuser is the cheap pebbly stuff. Ugly ,but quite bright and shock resistant. I've tested it in a dark room and it is much brighter that cfl without mirrors.

Mel, would love to see a pic of your creation!

David

[Mike Cutler]

I just got notice of my power company's upcoming rate hike. It'll be 10% this year. This coincides with the outlawing of incandescent bulbs at the first of the year. Now I get the pleasure of not only having to pay a lot more for bulbs, but any savings that the new bulbs create is offset by another rate hike. I'm sure all parties meant well, but....

Yes, I'm venting.

Steve
Which part of your bill will see the 10% increase, or is it a combination. Electric bills are "generally" separated into two categories. Generation, or the actual retail cost to generate electricity, and T&D (transmission and distribution), or the cost to get the power to you. One component you have some control over, the other you do not have as much. If you use less, you save.
For me, in Connecticut, my T&D component is actually greater than my usage component cost for any month where I don't use AC.
A CFL is much more efficient, power consumption wise, bulb than an incandescent, and as they have been out a few years now they are actually pretty cheap when bought in bulk. I believe that as LED's become more the "norm" you will see their retail cost drop also. No matter what though, the CFL comes out on top as being cheaper in todays economy. You would need four 100watt incandescents bulbs to be cheaper in cost and last longer than one 100 watt CFL for the incandescent to come out on top. Not discounting that a 100 watt CFL is 1/4 the the cost to operate of a 100 watt incandescent. The LED's will be even greater savings.
What I like about the future of LED lighting will be the ability to "tune" ambient light.
Nobody likes their power bills to increase, especially when you have no say. But the fuzzy math is nonsense. Unless all of the lights in someones house are on 24/7, lighting is not 10-12% of the average power bill in the US, unless it's broken down into generation and T&D.

As for the politics of coal?
I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for the coal plants. They've had 20+ years to develop and implement the technology to clean up their emissions and address the fly ash issues, but they've spent their energy fighting, delaying, and trying to modify the Clean Air Requirements, instead of upgrading their plants. Their issues are of their own making.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve
Which part of your bill will see the 10% increase, or is it a combination. Electric bills are "generally" separated into two categories.

Mike, it's a combination of both, they call it an average rate increase. Depending on how many KWH I use, my residential bill rate ranges from $.22 to $.09 per KWH. The "facilities" charge which is separate increases about 5% as well. There is also an access charge, and tax. If you want to split hairs, an extremely efficient house would actually see a rate increase of closer to 20% because the fees are not spread out over as many KWH.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants to buy different bulbs, but I don't want to, and I fail to see the savings for becoming more efficient. Yes, I'll use more power if I keep incandescents, but with a rate range like my power company, and probably most of yours too, power is cheaper if you use more.

Power distribution systems need maintenance, and as you pointed out, if the companies aren't getting their margin from the sale of power, the facilities charges will increase. A scenario where the facilities charge is the vast majority of the bill, because the cost of maintaining the system is fixed (less cost increases), is not only plausible, but very likely, exists.

Now those cost increases, they are driven buy everything from cost of copper to healthcare. Anyone notice whats happening to expenses lately?

I stand by my original thought, there is no cost savings with the light bulb mandate. Its a false economy.

Now, for the environmentalist types. How do you reconcile the energy put into the much more expensive manufacture of the new bulbs? Sure, they save the consumer power, but they sure cost the manufacturer a lot more, do they sum zero? How about the fact that CFL, and I'm pretty sure leds, both use nasty stuff to operate? There are just too many hypocrisies.

[Mel Fulks]

Mel, would love to see a pic of your creation!

David

Ive only posted pics once and had to get my son to my son to do the work. He will be here for Christmas and I'm making a note to PM you when the heavy lifting is done. I used the one inch thick foam ,a hardware store rubber socket ,old thin mirror scrap ,polyurethane glue. I think I've got a piece of wood glued to hold the diffuser screws. It looks like something a self taught dentist might make.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Mel, if you don't mind, I'd like to see it too. If you get to that point, post a pic for us all please.

[Mel Fulks]

Steve ,I appreciate the interest . I'm going to post it here . The pm is just going to be a notice that it is ready . I have added your name to PM "warning list".

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wish I could find those CFLs that last as long as incandescent bulbs and come on instantly.

We have a steep stairway into our basement and the light at the bottom was switched to CFL. It doesn't come on instantly and it's in a heated area so it's not related to cooler operating temperatures.

We have bought various brands of CFLs locally even our Costco. I haven't seen one yet that outlasts a standard incandescent bub.

While for a long time I wasn't a fan of low volume flush toilets due to bad experiences, a friend installed one and when I asked him later if he was happy he said he was. He explained his criteria for selecting his and it made sense. A while later one of our toilets needed replacing, and using my neighbors criteria, I bought one. I was pleasantly surprised by the results. A year or so later with good experiences, I bought another one to replace the large volume toilet in our downstairs bathroom.

[Mel Fulks]

That's interesting Ken. The ones we use come on instantly but do take a little time to go to full brightness. Mine are lasting a long time .We've been using them for years and have only replaced 3 or 4, I'm sure about that because I'm keeping all of them for eventual recycle .

[Jim Koepke]

Read this


and this

There have always been guardians of the old ways trying to prevent change.

I like an incandescent bulb in our well house to keep it from freezing. It only takes a little energy, 60W to be exact.

I like the energy efficient lamps to keep my electric bill down.

It is in the interests of the fossil fuel industry for all of us to keep using fossil fuel instead of trying to be more energy efficient.

jtk

[Leo Graywacz]

The life of a CFL has everything to do with heat.

If you have a fixture which has the bulb in the upside down position (base on top) the heat from the bulb will greatly diminish the life of the bulb. If you have it in a sealed fixture it will kill it relatively fast. I had an enclosed fixture that I put two 100w equivalent bulbs in and one of them blew within a day. I replaced it and the other blew within a day. I left it as a single bulb and it lasted about 2 years before it became temperamental.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mel,

I should restate my complaint. The CFL bulbs do come on immediately but don't achieve full brightness for several minutes. The problem I have is that the one at the bottom of the stairs is needed for safety and I can't turn it on and just trot down stairs with full light.

Point blank...none of the ones I have bought and installed has had a life that was longer than normal incandescent bulbs. Our local utility company sent every customer a box of CFLs to try to generate interest in their use. Those haven't lasted any longer. I would happily embrace CFLs if they provided both immediate full brightness and equal or better life span than normal incandescent bulbs.