Rules of Thumb for Workshop Size

[Brian W Smith]

Probably shouldn't respond.......I have 3k sq ft of "personal space".This is just our studio/shop.It's a little too much...


But am just going to throw a few things at the discussion from personal experience(have designed/built a 1/2 dz shops).My loading dock(600 sg feet)...the spraybooth(500 sgft.)....and my sink,which was a freeby from a plumber friend(1930's enameled,low-rise mop sink)...Basically,"trumps" everything else in the shop.

My retired builder buds and I sit on the cvrd loading dock and...well,do what retired guys do.The spraybooth has a bunch of nice M/C's in it(easily moved).And the sink gets used a dz times a day.Oh,and a really nice sm two-pce bathroom(was roughed in for shower,that never got installed).

If you could find a local builder guy...preferably retired.Bend his ear on some ideas for your particulars.Best of luck,BW

[Prashun Patel]

Is your goal to build a usable shop or to do an academic exercise? I think it's not best to build a shop based on your existing tools. It feels like you are going about this the wrong way. Figure out what kinds of work areas you need, and design around that.

on second read, i dont mean to sound snarky. I apologize if it comes off that way.

[Thomas Wilson]

Is your goal to build a usable shop or to do an academic exercise? I think it's not best to build a shop based on your existing tools. It feels like you are going about this the wrong way. Figure out what kinds of work areas you need, and design around that.

on second read, i dont mean to sound snarky. I apologize if it comes off that way.

This thread is an academic exercise. I am also building a shop. That is separate. In this thread, I want to come up with a rule of thumb for estimating shop size. A rule of thumb is a simplification that distills the experience of a great many people who have done the same thing into a simple relationship. To my mind, it is useful to know how big others' shops are in relation to the number of tools. It is analogous to building cost estimation. You ask a builder how much is your house going to cost. He tells you about $100 a square foot. That is a rule of thumb that is a similar condensation of his experience into a simple rule. Of course, your actual house does not cost exactly $100 per square foot but that is a useful number to know to begin planning.

I cannot know what I will build in my shop. It is my hobby. I will certainly build cabinets. Those are on the to-do list already. I hope to build lots of cradles and toys for grandchildren. I might build a canoe or rowboat. I will probably build things for family and friends that need or want help. I will estimate my shop size based on my own experience and I will plan based on everything I know. But to plan out the shop based on all future projects is an unknowable and overly complicated approach. The fact is I will simply have to make do with what I build. Right now, here is the range. I think what I currently have, 468 sq. ft. is too small. My wife thinks 1150 sq. ft. is too big. We are working out the actual plan somewhere in between. A rule of thumb gives an distillation of other people's experience in a useful form for that asymmetrical debate.

If you choose not to add your shop size to my collection of data because you think it is a useless academic exercise, that is your prerogative. A great many people in this thread seem to believe I want their advice on how big my shop should be. That is not the case. That is my decision. What I am asking for is the group's experience with their shops and how it boiled down to a simple parameter, square feet per tool. I hope you will include your shop in the exercise.

Thanks.
Thomas

[Thomas Wilson]

Probably shouldn't respond.......I have 3k sq ft of "personal space".This is just our studio/shop.It's a little too much...


But am just going to throw a few things at the discussion from personal experience(have designed/built a 1/2 dz shops).My loading dock(600 sg feet)...the spraybooth(500 sgft.)....and my sink,which was a freeby from a plumber friend(1930's enameled,low-rise mop sink)...Basically,"trumps" everything else in the shop.

My retired builder buds and I sit on the cvrd loading dock and...well,do what retired guys do.The spraybooth has a bunch of nice M/C's in it(easily moved).And the sink gets used a dz times a day.Oh,and a really nice sm two-pce bathroom(was roughed in for shower,that never got installed).

If you could find a local builder guy...preferably retired.Bend his ear on some ideas for your particulars.Best of luck,BW

Sounds like your shop is a fun place to be. You may include the refrigerator and big screen TV as stationary power tools.

TW

[Thomas Wilson]

RofT.jpg

I think the data clustered between 40 and 70 sq. ft./tool is probably the range that is going to cover most shops.
TW

[Steve Milito]

I think it depends on what you intend to make and not so much on the footprint per machine. A shop producing small boxes, a lutherier's shop, a carvers's shop or a bowl turners shop can be small with all the occasionally used machines clustered when not in use. A shop geared toward producing custom wooden sailboats would need a huge shop even if all done with hand tools.

[Thomas Wilson]

Name	No. of Tools	Shop size	Z	Pro/home
Thomas Wilson	7	468	66.8	Home
Phil Harold	7	1200	171.4	Pro
Tom Clark	11	1296	117.8	Retired Pro
Shawn Pixley	6	480	80	Home
George Newbury	1	600	600	Pro
Jeff Duncan	23	1496	65.0	Pro
Greg Peterson	7	270	38.6	Home
Greg's cousin	7	540	77.1	Pro
Zane Harris	7	265	37.9	Home
Duane Meadows	20	950	47.5	Pro

Bit of a guess on Pro/home based on response. Please feel free to correct me.

[Thomas Wilson]

I think it depends on what you intend to make and not so much on the footprint per machine. A shop producing small boxes, a lutherier's shop, a carvers's shop or a bowl turners shop can be small with all the occasionally used machines clustered when not in use. A shop geared toward producing custom wooden sailboats would need a huge shop even if all done with hand tools.

Of course there is a range. And I am interested in the range and in the explanation of the why one is higher or lower than another. But there is a center of the range that provides some utility. I expect my shop will be more like other kitchen cabinet makers and reproduction furniture makers like myself, but I want to know the statistics of the distribution. Small projects tend to have smaller tools and fewer stationary power tools and smaller workspace for assembly. A luthier might only have a big bandsaw for sawing out blanks. His workspace is probably still proportional to the number of stationary tools.

For counting purposes, I mean to count the stationary machines that are functionally set up simultaneously for work not the ones in storage. The group of tools that can occupy a single multi-use space is counted as one tool.

Does that address your comments?

If you will share your data of how you made the space and tool compromise, it will help everyone.


Thanks.

TW.

[Steve Milito]

My current shop is about 550 sq ft. I have a BS, TS, Planer, Joiner, sanders x 2, router table, DP, and a bench.
I find it way too small.
My new out building, which is under construction, will have a designated shop area of 1300+ sq ft as well as garage space for other stuff.
The new space was designed around the concept that I should be able to work with 4x8 sheets of plywood, and the possibility that a slider is in my future.
My recommendation is to make models of the machines you want, including the required work space for the projects you build, and lay them out. Add a few machines you may want, or increase the footage for bigger projects you may want to tackle.
You're approach is akin to having a committee design a horse.

I'll try to avoid the subject of the statistical validity of the data, but will point out the the range of 38 - 600 sq ft per machine will generate space anywhere from the size of a one car garage to a small warehouse for typical 7 - 8 machine cabinet shop.

[phil harold]

I expect my shop will be more like other kitchen cabinet makers and reproduction furniture makers like myself,
TW.

Assembly area

Making kitchen cabinets you will need plenty of storage for all the cabinets while building them and finishing them

PS
My shop is hobby shop and is still too small
and I never posted what tools I had, I went of your list...

My old rule of thumb is if your house is 1600 sqft you need 3200 sqft of shop space plus a garage for cars

[John A langley]

Two Tablesaws ,one slider ,20 inch thickness planer, three shapers, panel router, line boring, Pocket hole drill and table, two miter saws, door clamping table, 16 inch bandsaw, drum sander and edge sander, router table, 8 inch joiner, 4 inch joiner, CAT technology spraygun ,36 inch wide belt sander shop 3700sq ,ft almost forgot five horse air compressor and air dryer and 25 horse phase converter

[Thomas Wilson]

My current shop is about 550 sq ft. I have a BS, TS, Planer, Joiner, sanders x 2, router table, DP, and a bench.
I find it way too small.
My new out building, which is under construction, will have a designated shop area of 1300+ sq ft as well as garage space for other stuff.
The new space was designed around the concept that I should be able to work with 4x8 sheets of plywood, and the possibility that a slider is in my future.
My recommendation is to make models of the machines you want, including the required work space for the projects you build, and lay them out. Add a few machines you may want, or increase the footage for bigger projects you may want to tackle.
You're approach is akin to having a committee design a horse.

I'll try to avoid the subject of the statistical validity of the data, but will point out the the range of 38 - 600 sq ft per machine will generate space anywhere from the size of a one car garage to a small warehouse for typical 7 - 8 machine cabinet shop.

My shop size is similar and I totally agree that it it too small. My wife points out that I have made a lot of nice things in it

For the floor plan, I am going to design the shop with Sketchup. I am not asking for the group to design it for me. It will be all my design. I just want your experience on your shop in a very simplified form. That is useful information to see that I am not being too generous with the space. There are other constraints that I have to meet.

I am going say your shop is Z=550/8=68.8 sq. ft./tool.

What I am learning is that most people have 7-8 tools . There is a real heavy concentration at that point on the graph. It is a useful cluster of data points. I think that the data point to an average of 40 to 70 for general purpose shops with normal constraints on space. I think my shop will fall into an even narrower band of similar woodworkers from 60 to 70 sq. ft per tool.

Thanks.

TW

[Thomas Wilson]

Assembly area

Making kitchen cabinets you will need plenty of storage for all the cabinets while building them and finishing them

PS
My shop is hobby shop and is still too small
and I never posted what tools I had, I went of your list...

My old rule of thumb is if your house is 1600 sqft you need 3200 sqft of shop space plus a garage for cars

My wife is the finisher. We usually finish them in the room where they are installed, not the shop. I do not expect to have a dedicated finishing room.

I like your rule of thumb. I will run that by the boss.

TW

[Thomas Wilson]

Two Tablesaws ,one slider ,20 inch thickness planer, three shapers, panel router, line boring, Pocket hole drill and table, two miter saws, door clamping table, 16 inch bandsaw, drum sander and edge sander, router table, 8 inch joiner, 4 inch joiner, CAT technology spraygun ,36 inch wide belt sander shop 3700sq ,ft almost forgot five horse air compressor and air dryer and 25 horse phase converter

I count 19 stationary tools. Is that right? Is the slider one of the two table saws or a separate tool? Is there a finishing room or lumber kiln? I am not counting that space in the space/tool ratio. Is it a commercial shop?

Subject to revision with your help, but I get Z=3700/19=194.7 sq. ft/tool.

Thanks.

TW

[Wade Lippman]

Aha. I did forget the Powermatic 6" jointer. It is very new. It replaced a 42 year old Craftsman 6" jointer. The new jointer is much bigger.

My assembly table is portable. It is a torsion box, 1/2 plywood over a 2x4 ladder frame. I rest it on plastic fold up saw horses. My out feed table for the table saw is also used for glue ups. It is 2 by 4. I think what is crowding my shop is the storage space. As a percentage of my space, I have a lot of storage for plank and sheet lumber.

I actually know quite a lot about construction costs.

But, still give me some real data for my Rule. What is the square footage and how many stationary power tools are set up in that space?

TW

I have nearly the same tools as you, except:
Scroll saw instead of RAS
Router table built into TS
OTOH, most of my tools are bigger than yours.
So it should be about a wash sizewise.

My tools are in a 13x28 area. There is plenty of open floorspace to do everything and 2 big open areas for assembly.
In addition to that, I have:
9x13 of shelving with sandpaper, stains, handheld tools...
Lumber fills 13x8.
And 7x13 that is empty so far. Thinking of a MFT for it.

So, based on my shop, and if I understand your conditions properly, you should have plenty of room as it is.

I tried to post some pictures showing my layout, but they are being rejected for some reason. I even tried to post a picture of a latch that I posted last week, but it won't post either. Is something changed?