Maybe they are ScottishOriginally Posted by Mike Brady
arrogant and cheap...
sounds like my father
Member
Maybe they are Scottish
arrogant and cheap...
sounds like my father
Carpe Lignum
In Memoriam
Oh dear Mike,
If I thought I was as arrogant as those two, I might have to shoot myself.
(I do not know anything about Graham Blackburn).
Best wishes,
David
Contributor
Awkward...
Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.
Contributor
I'm glad I'm not the only one that had that thought.
I thought I was kind of bad with my "I prefer LN because of the traditional look of the tools as opposed to LV". I gotta say, that dude took the cake, ate it, and crapped it back out on the same plate in the blink of an eye.
The Barefoot Woodworker.
Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.
Contributor
'Tis easier to learn from humility than arrogance.
As far as I care, anyone with an attitude that thinks their poo doesn't stick can go chew my sassafrass.
People with arrogance are what turn others away from learning a craft or even approaching it and learning to appreciate it. I don't care if you can make gold from lead; have some humility and realize there are others out there that don't toot their own horns that can probably do things better and faster.
So, to sum it up, after reading some of what the "woodworking gurus" say, I say stuff it, Mr. Blowhard. You didn't start out on top, and with the attitude, you won't stay on top for long. I'd much rather talk to someone down-to-earth that knows half of what an arrogant "guru" knows.
The Barefoot Woodworker.
Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.
They both are. It is up to us to decide who to follow ;-)Exactly Chris.
The interesting thing is that David Savage is saying that he cannot get the LN sharp enough to work on furniture (presumably with grits up to at least 6000), while Paul Sellers is saying 250 grit is enough. I wonder who is correct?
Regards from Perth
Derek
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
Ah, David, you may be a victim of my "cultural profiling". Hopefully you didn't take offense, as my comments are directed more at teaching techniques rather than at personalities. In fact, Blackburn is the only one of those mentioned I have met in person.
To my point, the impression I get from the video instruction I have watched is that the use of old Stanley planes and such is "a piece of cake" that makes investment in modern premium tools just a egoistic extravagance. My twenty five years experience in using old and new hand tools has taught me that the reverse is true. I have many finely prepared Stanley planes and there is not one I would trade for the equivalent modern tool. Thus my conclusion that the Brits I mentioned, including yourself, while obviously very skilled, come across to me as if to say "I can read the bloody newspaper through my shavings...and you can't". In fairness to you, your ruler trick and sharpening regime have always been what I have followed. Paul, on the other hand, recently wrote of sharpening only to the task at hand. He rarely teaches with anything other than boot sale #4 or equivalent. That is oversimplifying a needed skill set to the point of being unfair to the student. in my opinion. You are certainly not guilty of that!
As a word of advise to those on your side of the pond who want to gain a U.S. audience: The American hobbyist is also largely a consumer of (new) American goods. Tom Lie-Nielsen knows that very well. Bashing or discounting the validity of the tools currently being produced here by a number of makers is short-sighted. I even saw you one time in a video sporting a #5-1/2 LN plane. Wasn't bad, was it?
Guest
I have to give david the benefit of the doubt, he plays all of the instruments in the orchestra. I've seen him recommend lie nielsen chisels and other tools without reservation (vs. bashing them as the topic of the OP has done), and at the same time, discuss the 5 1/2 stanley that shows up in all of the videos as proof that a tool that's out of whack to start with (which isn't the case for most stanley tools) can be used with good effect.
Contributor
I agree, so does Paul Sellers
In addition at last years Woodworking show Paul Sellers told me Lie-nielsen makes wonderful tools as well as Veritas , Auriou, etc, he wasn't arrogant at all.
As a matter of fact people bring honing guides, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, etc to his schools- he doesn't judge.
I think people are quick to judge and label.
Member
This just became my new favorite thread of all time
Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...
Contributor
+1: I don't know Mr. Savage or his work but the Messiers Charlesworth and Sellers I'm familiar with their work and their online interactions. Both, to my mind, have been attentive to answer questions and provide a great service to the woodworking community. My only problem with Mr. Sellers is that often his teaching is somewhat different than what I've learned elsewhere - leaving me to find the touchstone of commonality or testing which works better for me. I've come to believe that many of the differences between teachers comes from cutting the end of the proverbial hams.This just became my new favorite thread of all time
FWIW, which t'aint much, I really like the feel of the LN chisels and find them very adept at both paring and chopping.
[OP]
Contributor
I'm the OP and I certainly wasn't bashing any product. This is just the first brand that he's reviewed so to speak. Everyone is jumping all over him for not worshiping LN but for all we know, maybe he doesn't like any of the chisel makers.
As and when he 'reviews' more chisel brands, I'll post them accordingly.
Given he's in the UK, I wonder which brands are on the list? I'm guessing Ashley Isles, Narex, Sorby, Crown and Bahco perhaps?
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Guest
I'd call it market differentiation, and sometimes a peeing contest of sorts. David Charlesworth seems to limit his peeing to the men's room, though. I would categorize, from a user's standpoint, David's methods as extremely precise. You may not need to be so precise on a day to day basis, but you have the option and can let experience be your guide.
I've never seen David say anything that I thought salesy or offensive, either, and I have a very sensitive salesy-ness antenna.
Guest
Japanese are possible. I can't imagine he'd waste much time with sorby, and I don't say that to be offensive to them, I just get the sense that they are satisfied with their status quo.
Pfeil may also be an option in the UK.
There are plenty of reasons to not like the LN chisels from a design standpoint, but to criticize a new manufacture chisel because it's A2 and then call O1 great can only be defended from an "oilstones are the only way to go" perch. If one has an abrasive that cuts all of the things that are present in A2, there will be no practical difference other than that at multi micron grits, A2 holds a wire edge a little longer. That is easily remedied with a fine stone or bare leather. Even a $10 piece of biggs jasper to chase the wire bits will take care of the issue.
Contributor
The person I've seen that strikes me as having the most 'salesy-ness' is actually an American. He left me with such a bad taste in my mouth I have watched very little of him.
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