David Savage on Lie-Nielsen chisels

[Hilton Ralphs]

Seems like the new thing for sale is how to woodwork with no investment.

If you take into account the overall goal of making woodworking more accessible to the younger generation and prettier gender class, then surely it's better to go with the initial 'less is more' approach? From someone who doesn't live in the UK or USA, it's often quite disheartening to read magazine blogs telling you that the Chinese junk that's available to you is not good enough.

We all have our biases and preferences of course and Paul Sellers has some pretty strong views on sharpening methods.

I'd like to see what David Savage says about the other brands but one thing is for sure, he makes beautiful furniture.

[Hilton Ralphs]

As for grammar and spellings, the source (magazine, blog?) is not revealed and we have no way of telling the need for perfect grammar and spellings.

It was an email and I posted a screen shot earlier.

[Sean Hughto]

Uh, LN offers them in O-1 as well as A-2. Mr. Savage appears to be ignorant of this fact.

[Chris Griggs]

If you take into account the overall goal of making woodworking more accessible to the younger generation and prettier gender class, then surely it's better to go with the initial 'less is more' approach? From someone who doesn't live in the UK or USA, it's often quite disheartening to read magazine blogs telling you that the Chinese junk that's available to you is not good enough.

We all have our biases and preferences of course and Paul Sellers has some pretty strong views on sharpening methods.

I'd like to see what David Savage says about the other brands but one thing is for sure, he makes beautiful furniture.

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm all about starting with only what you need and only what you can afford. I get so annoyed when someone says you NEED this or that premium tool to get into woodworking, and not being independantly wealthy often got very disheartened when I was just starting out as I couldn't run out and buy all the tools I was told (by mags and bloggers) I needed at once. I like very very much what these guys are preaching in principal, but I guess I find that their delivery comes across as being contradictory just for the sake of it.

Taking the example of the 250 grit sharpening video...that video would have been far more valuable if instead of trying to say the a 250 grit edge is good enough (it won't be for most folks for long), that he had shown how to get a truly good and refined edge with a really inexpensive setup. Telling a beginner woodworker that a 250 edge is good enough for most their work doesn't really do them a service. Showing them how to get a refined edge without spending a bunch of money is far more helpful.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I own a full set of LN bevel edge and mortice chisels and a fishtail and corner chisel. The A2 steel takes a fine edge on waterstones. They certainly get the job done. What amazed me about the original post is the comment that they are heavy and I think he said "clumsy" or something of the sort. Really? I find them to be very light and smaller than I expected them to be. Perhaps it's just that I am used to old heavy tools, but these are anything but clumsy. The mortice chisels certainly have some heft, which is what you want in a mortice chisel. The bevel edged chisels I would describe as nimble in the hand, i.e. Light and maneuverable.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Taking the example of the 250 grit sharpening video...that video would have been far more valuable if instead of trying to say the a 250 grit edge is good enough (it won't be for most folks for long), that he had shown how to get a truly good and refined edge with a really inexpensive setup. Telling a beginner woodworker that a 250 edge is good enough for most their work doesn't really do them a service. Showing them how to get a refined edge without spending a bunch of money is far more helpful.

He has done this in the past.



The sound of the 15k sharpened blade is awesome though!

[Simon MacGowen]

It was an email and I posted a screen shot earlier.

Thanks, as I didn't see anything about the source in this thread.

In that case, the lack of attention to the language mechanics is fully understandable (and acceptable in my book).

Simon

[Chris Griggs]

He has done this in the past.

Yeah, I've seen that. Too me, that video is more about his sharpening technique. I wouldn't call that set of diamond stones sharpening on the cheap. Anyway, I don't mean to harp on Sellers too badly. He puts out some cool stuff, and its easy for me to sit here from computer and criticize him...I probably shouldn't, I mean its not like I have real expertise or am putting any kind of content out there (that reads as sarcastic but i mean that in earnest).

My only point was that I felt like he sorta lost the point in that one video, and also, in regards to the Savage thing, it really just came across, to me, like he just had an axe to grind. I don't question either of these guys expertise, but I just think as experts who earn money for sharing their expertise, they need to be careful about keeping things in context.

[David Weaver]

Send him a modern stone or something made of diamonds. I believe steve elliot proved (mechanically measured) that the sharpness of the various steels does not vary with diamonds. I never felt the edge lacking on any A2 tools until I got into using A2 more.

Paul would have a different reason to not like them with his normal sharpening regime, that being that most are harder and thicker and less fast to grind by hand.

Some of this stuff (paul putting videos out of sharpening with an india stone and David Savage describing LN chisels as avoidable) doesn't do anything to help beginners look past their feet, it just feeds the discussions of rudimentary stuff and gets people stuck in the mud. Beginners lack experience, and if the instructors disregarded most of this stuff and said "do it however you like, you'll figure it out", maybe people would move on to the "what should the things I'm building look like to be pleasing to the eye" a little earlier.

[lowell holmes]

I don't need some unknown (to me) tell me about my chisels.

I'm happy with my LN chisels well as my water stones (seldom use them) and my diamond hones (keep the fine out on my bench).

l also like my Ray Iles pig stickers.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I kind of see what he means about the LN chisels - the first time I picked one up, I was surprised by their weight - they're much thicker than a lot of the chisels I'm using. The difference between the 1/4" Lie Nielsen and the the 1/4" Ashley Iles I have was quite a bit. I prefered the lighter AI chisel, but it depends on what you're doing with the tool.

[Jim Matthews]

I wonder if the originating article is pointing out that more expensive tools may not be necessary in order to start out?

Woodworking has egalitarian roots, and if it becomes expensive to start out - the craft will wither.
I have great admiration for some of the new materials, but work just fine with "second tier" steel that I can sharpen quickly.

It might be helpful if there was a standard for honing, and a record of how long it takes to get a product sharp enough to do X procedure.
Following that, a measure of Y retention would be revelatory.

If I follow the subtext of Mr. Sellers' latest sharpening publication, it's around some very inexpensive chisels that anyone can afford.

I purchase tools often for their own sake. Active furniture makers are figuring all costs against their bottom line.

Those approaches are very different.

[Steve Voigt]

When I first saw the title of this thread, i thought it was referring to Dan Savage, the guy who writes the "Savage Love" column.
At least that would have been interesting.

[george wilson]

It is true that A2 will not take quite as sharp an edge as plain W1 type unalloyed carbon steel. 01 will get a teeny bit sharper than A2 will,but won't quite match the W1. It is a trade off: Maximum sharpness for minimum edge durability.

That being said,A2 will take quite a good enough edge for woodworking if honed right. The 1 time recently when I HAD to have the maximum sharpness in an edge,was when I was trying to skive down the flesh side of some very fluffy chrome tanned sea ray skin. I was restoring an antique covered with tissue thin ray skin. I could not get the 01 block plane blade to quite cut the fuzzy stuff. Only my W1 blade managed to do it. But,that is an extreme example to say the least. For cutting wood,which is a rigid material,the A2 blades I have do quite well enough.

The time you will need the very sharpest edge you can get is when cutting across the end grain of that obnoxious radiate pine the bores sell ! The softer the wood,the sharper your tools need to be.

[Mike Brady]

I chop with my A-2 Lie-Nielsen chisels and pare with a couple of their O-1's. I have rid myself of numerous others. Maybe this reviewer should go shopping with Mr. Sellers at his local Aldi grocery store...that is where Paul is buying his chisels now. Really. Read his blog.

What is it about English woodworking gurus? The four that come to mind: Sellars, the guy above, Charlesworth. Blackburn; all impress me as being arrogant about their skills to the point of hubris. Also a bit cheap. Sure, they can make those old Stanleys whistle a tune as they glide down a board, but can the average person (student) make an antique tool perform as well as a modern premium one? I think it has to be a cultural thing. That said, there certainly is much to be learned from all of them.