Has anyone installed LED lighting in their shop?

[James R. Williams]

I'm in the process of determining the lighting for my garage/shop and was wondering if anyone has installed any LED lighting and what positive or negative comments they would have. I have been installing LED's in some warehouses at my job, and while things are much more bright, in these installations the LED's seem to cast a shadow that might be a problem for woodworking. Cost is a problem at this time, but like most electronics the cost should drop as the LED becomes more popular. The calculation for installing flourescent fixtures was over 20 fixtures to sufficiently light my whole garage, and that is pretty expensive also.
Thanks,
Jim

[Jim Andrew]

I replaced a couple of old T12 fluorescents with T8 and daylight bulbs. WOW what a difference!

[Art Mann]

I think you will find that fluorescent lighting is currently only a tiny fraction of the cost of equivalent LED lighting and the situation is likely to stay that way for quite a while.

[Steve Milito]

I think you will find that fluorescent lighting is currently only a tiny fraction of the cost of equivalent LED lighting and the situation is likely to stay that way for quite a while.

I bought 4 lamp tandem fluorescent fixtures for $35. The lamps cost about $1.50 each. I believe even the least expensive LED bulbs would be 4 times more expensive per lumen including the cost of the fluorescent fixture.

[Brian Elfert]

LED lighting is typically only a real savings over incandescent lighting. Fluorescent lighting with T8 bubs and electronic ballasts can come close to LED in efficiency for way less cost. If you are doing a workshop that is for hobby use you would probably never save enough to pay for LEDs at today's pricing.

In a commercial setting LED can make sense for some locations due to the labor cost if a fixture is hard to get at. Labor cost is usually not an issue for hobby shops.

[Greg R Bradley]

For any hobby shop and most commercial shops, LED fixtures don't make sense at this point. I'm even ignoring the color issues with the artificial look to most, perhaps all, LED lights.

Good T8/T5 fixtures and lamps are similar in Lumens per Watt to LED fixtures.

There are some new Lithonia LED fixtures that are direct replacements for the typical 4' 2 lamp T8 fixture. At 97 Lumens per Watt, they are the most efficient I have found. Unfortunately, they are 4000 Lumen output so they are well below the light of a typical dual T-8 fixture at 5500-6000 Lumens. The real issue for me is max temp of 86 degrees. Even though they are way more fixture per dollar than the LED fixtures available last year, they are 2-3 time the price of equivalent fluorescent fixtures at $250-350.

I have ordered some of Lithonia's new IBH 11L high bay fixtures to try out. They look very interesting if you are replacing MH fixtures or fluorescents in hard to access areas. I'm thinking of using them in a clean room that operates 24x7 and justifying them due to lack of maintenance.

There are some interesting LED lamps designed for office use in both drop ceiling troffer style and surface mount with wrap around lenses. The 4' surface mount with lenses could make sense in a garage converted to a shop, basement, or other shop where you have a dry walled ceiling at 8-10'. I would have some concerns being on the bleeding edge of new technology.

[Curt Harms]

I replaced a couple of old T12 fluorescents with T8 and daylight bulbs. WOW what a difference!

That is my experience as well. I didn't find a HUGE difference but it was certainly noticeable.

[Jeff Duncan]

How big is your garage? 20 fixtures sounds like a lot, of course we don't know what size fixtures your thinking about? I'm thinking a typical 4' flourescent bulb fixture in which case that's a LOT of lights. I looked into LED's briefly as someone on another forum suggested them to me. The cost is still very high and I'm not sure I'd ever see the pay back financially. I already have fixtures though, so was comparing the cost vs swapping out ballasts for T8's.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jerome Hanby]

Super huge drawback to most consumer LED lighting is it is made to replace standard lighting meaning that it is powered from 120 volt AC. That means you end up with a DC power supply in each "bulb" that is designed to be as low cost as possible. Power supplies are a lot like wood tools, you get what you pay for. I've seen numerous failures in LED lights, all of them were power supply issues. I tore the "bulbs" apart and salvaged the actual LEDs, all of them have been good. Now if you wanted to do your own LED lighting and power it off of a "good" DC power source, then you might have something. I found a company called Lumen Cache that builds a lighting system that is hooked up with CAT5. That got me thinking, so I'm now designing a PWM controller to drive strings of LED lights wired with CAT6 (handles a little more current). 10 watt LEDs and heat sinks are pretty cheap on the 'bay. If all this pans out, all the lighting in the house we are gutting will be LED. For my shop, I'm stilling going with 4 foot T8 florescents (although I am installing solar panels with a grid tied inverter so I can sell a little energy back to the power company).

[James R. Williams]

Thanks for all of the useful replies, gentlemen. It looks like T8's are still the answer. I based my lighting needs on the article by Jack Lindsay, but it has been a few months back and I currently can't find my drawings and documents. I should re-calculate to make sure I am doing it correctly, and I don't need to do the complete garage in fluorescent, since it is a 2 1/2 car garage, not just a shop. My hope was to come up with a good wiring plan before drywalling, but lighting design is definitely more complex than I thought.
Jim

[Marc Ward]

For any hobby shop and most commercial shops, LED fixtures don't make sense at this point. I'm even ignoring the color issues with the artificial look to most, perhaps all, LED lights.

Good T8/T5 fixtures and lamps are similar in Lumens per Watt to LED fixtures.

There are some new Lithonia LED fixtures that are direct replacements for the typical 4' 2 lamp T8 fixture. At 97 Lumens per Watt, they are the most efficient I have found. Unfortunately, they are 4000 Lumen output so they are well below the light of a typical dual T-8 fixture at 5500-6000 Lumens. The real issue for me is max temp of 86 degrees. Even though they are way more fixture per dollar than the LED fixtures available last year, they are 2-3 time the price of equivalent fluorescent fixtures at $250-350.

I have ordered some of Lithonia's new IBH 11L high bay fixtures to try out. They look very interesting if you are replacing MH fixtures or fluorescents in hard to access areas. I'm thinking of using them in a clean room that operates 24x7 and justifying them due to lack of maintenance.

There are some interesting LED lamps designed for office use in both drop ceiling troffer style and surface mount with wrap around lenses. The 4' surface mount with lenses could make sense in a garage converted to a shop, basement, or other shop where you have a dry walled ceiling at 8-10'. I would have some concerns being on the bleeding edge of new technology.

I took a cheap double 4' fluorescent fixture, bypassed the ballast and installed two Titan LED 4' LED tubes. They cost about $70 each, and the two draw only 34 watts. The "high bay" you referenced draws about 150 watts and cost about $219. The Titan LEDs are "day white" (4,996k) and the CRI is 79. 75,000 hour life, with a 5 year NON-prorated warranty.

By the way, the "high bay" you mentioned is not called that by Lithonia, it is only called a "bay fixture" and is meant to be mounted 10-20 feet about the floor. Not very high.

[Aleks Hunter]

Yes, I have been replacing fluorescents with LED's I have a little advantage in that my wife is a LC certified lighting designer. The 18 w t8 LED 5000K replacement tubes from samsung put out about 103 lumens per watt Vs GE wattmiser 16 watt at 79.5 lumens per watt. The life expectancy of the LEDs is also about five times the fluorescents. They are not ont he shelf at a big box store, contact a good lighting supply house, make sure you reballast the fixtures appropriately Return on investment times are usually in the 30-36 month range and after that you can bank the difference. Leds have significantly less efficiency falloff over time. Over my machinery area I've started hanging RAB 2x26 pendants http://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=PLED2X26 to serve as task lighte. They are less efficient than wattmisers, or HIDs but don't generate the heat that HIDs can and they are outstanding task lights.

[Greg R Bradley]

Yes, I have been replacing fluorescents with LED's I have a little advantage in that my wife is a LC certified lighting designer. The 18 w t8 LED 5000K replacement tubes from samsung put out about 103 lumens per watt Vs GE wattmiser 16 watt at 79.5 lumens per watt. The life expectancy of the LEDs is also about five times the fluorescents. They are not ont he shelf at a big box store, contact a good lighting supply house, make sure you reballast the fixtures appropriately Return on investment times are usually in the 30-36 month range and after that you can bank the difference. Leds have significantly less efficiency falloff over time. Over my machinery area I've started hanging RAB 2x26 pendants http://www.rabweb.com/product.php?product=PLED2X26 to serve as task lighte. They are less efficient than wattmisers, or HIDs but don't generate the heat that HIDs can and they are outstanding task lights.

Can we get a item number on that Samsung T8 replacement bulb? Is that a standard 4' T8?

103 Lumens per Watt would be extremely high efficiency at this point, about 20-25% better than good T8/T5 and LEDs. At that point LED could have a savings over T8/T5.

[Aleks Hunter]

Here is the info on it: http://www.generallumi.com/products.php?pid=117&cid=26

[Marc Ward]

Not bad but the Titan LED tubes are 110 LPW, with a 75,000 hour life and a 5 year non-prorated warranty. 100% made in the USA. What about the Samsung is better than that? BTW, their spec sheet says the LPW is 95, not 103.