Shapton Ceramic Stones and Hone-Rite Gold

[David Weaver]

Hopefully, the rust on the trend plate was rust from swarf and not rust on the plate itself. The trend plate was an entirely separate issue discussed here earlier, it's one of the products that in my opinion goes into the category of better for the seller than the buyer.

At any rate, most diamond plates, if they are milled steel backed, have some sort of lacquer or oxidized surface that doesn't rust that easily. I've not had any diamond hone (including two "best" sharpening stone diamond hones from china - which is where the trend is from) that's rusted, but all of them have had rusty swarf on them (which is a condition thats relieved as easily as honing a tool on them).

re: the comments above, it's my suspicion (we're never going to have retailers and promoters tell us about their conversations of what to promote and what not to) that since Rob is now promoting for woodcraft instead of lie nielsen, he will be promoting products he never would've promoted at lie nielsen just like he promoted products at lie nielsen that he probably would not have promoted if he was selling his own line of stuff at that time. He's got to put food on the table, that's his job.

It's kind of comical that when you go back to woodcentral's archives in 2008, you'll find that Rob was telling folks at the time that the only chisel he'd found that would stand up to 17 degree bevels was the lie nielsen chisels. There was a discussion some years later (after the LN promotion ended) that they didn't actually hold up that well at 17 degrees (I think all of us could find that out pretty easily).

My ears will perk up when he's using and praising product that he doesn't sell and that woodcraft doesn't sell (or better yet, that a competitor sells). Otherwise, a lot of the things that will go across his bench will have an SKU at woodcraft, and that is, in my opinion, precisely why they are going across his bench. Like the trend plate - there is no reason that anyone should buy a made in china monocrystalline diamond hone for $145, it shouldn't, in my opinion, even be promoted to people when there are two-sided flat made in the USA monocrystalline diamond hones for half as much.

I believe that's the beef that most people have with product association with Rob - the items change with the parternship. If you examine someone like Warren Mickley who has no power tools and works wood for a living, you'll find a very short list of accessories. That's not good for the seller, but good for the buyer if the buyer so chooses to go that route.

[Jim Neeley]

It's kind of comical that when you go back to woodcentral's archives in 2008, you'll find that Rob was telling folks at the time that the only chisel he'd found that would stand up to 17 degree bevels was the lie nielsen chisels. There was a discussion some years later (after the LN promotion ended) that they didn't actually hold up that well at 17 degrees (I think all of us could find that out pretty easily).

My ears will perk up when he's using and praising product that he doesn't sell and that woodcraft doesn't sell (or better yet, that a competitor sells).

David,

Can I offer you an update?

Even today, Rob promotes Lie-Nielsen as making the best US-made chisel today and recommends them to his students.

Also still today, Rob maintains some of his L-N chisels with primary bevels at 17* and others at 25*. The 17* are used for paring and working in softer material, such as aspen or poplar (e.g. drawer sides), while the steeper angles are recommended for chopping hard material. As you are no doubt aware, when working in soft material, the shallower the angle the more likely it is to cut cleanly and the less likely it is to crush the stock.

To be clear, he does not propose 2 sets of chisels. To be specific he recommends against getting whole sets as he sees it as an unnecessary expense but rather to get the ones that you'll use such as perhaps 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2", adding in others (perhaps 1/8" or 3/4") based on the types of work you do.

When asked about Japanese chisels on the forum, he indicated that he doesn't use them / hasn't found the need and hence has no real opinion of them, good or bad.

Juswt my $0.02... YMMV.

Jim in Alaska

[David Weaver]

That brings up a different problem, and that is that the solution always seems to be one of buying. i haven't seen anyone anywhere else specify 17 degrees and it's certainly an arbitrary target that is pointless to aim for if a chisel holds up at 20.

17-19 or so is a bevel angle for razor manufacture, and one of futzing and tippy toeing around when using any chisels in wood.

[Jack Curtis]

...I believe that's the beef that most people have with product association with Rob - the items change with the parternship. If you examine someone like Warren Mickley who has no power tools and works wood for a living, you'll find a very short list of accessories. That's not good for the seller, but good for the buyer if the buyer so chooses to go that route.

+1, in complete agreement. And it's so tedious when a couple or three of Rob's acolytes come and profess his godliness, we have to repeat these conversations ad nauseum.

[Jim Koepke]

And it's so tedious when a couple or three of Rob's acolytes come and profess his godliness, we have to repeat these conversations ad nauseum.

No, we do not have to repeat these conversations. To prove it, that is all I am going to say.

jtk

Okay, just one more thing… Ad nauseam is one thing, but to carry on this conversation would be to add nausea.

[Mel Fulks]

I suspect that the product is one of the additives commonly added to the water that is pumped over knives while being ground in moulder knife grinders. They are usually referred to as coolants,but also prevent rust on the machine. Not good for your skin.

[Dave Anderson NH]

While personal opinions are fine, this thread is beginning to drift in to the area of bashing. Let's keep it on topic folks.

Enuf said.