My review of buying a Triumph laser.

[Dave Sheldrake]

10mm a second @ 98% on a 100 watt fatbody is what I would expect from 8mm acrylic Try to keep the power below 90% or heating will become a problem.

cheers

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

For all I know, at 100% power, my power supply is only putting out 17ma instead of 26. That is why I need my 30 milliamp meter.

If I go down to 90% power, then I will have to run at 9mm/sec to penetrate. I don't understand how that makes for less heat.

[Dave Sheldrake]

It depends on what the supply is kicking out Rob, it may be 17mA or it may be 40mA, Chinese supplies aren't the most stable in the world and can spike or peak above a safe limit.

The process of pumping CO2 gas mix is based on input energy, the higher you go on the input the more heat is generated in the tube so the longer the gas takes to reach it's base state. Going up 10% on input power doesn't increase the supplied current by 10% as it's not a 100% efficient transfer.

China tends to set up machines in many cases by the cutting ability of the tube (output beam power)rather than by testing the actual supplied current, if they get 100 watts of beam that can on occasion mean over driving the tube.(not all of them by any means but some do it)
Dropping 10% on power can often increase cutting speeds due to the nature of the way lasers actually cut.(sounds silly I know but is born out by testing and the figures behind it)

Like you say a mA meter is essential at this point so you can see what current you are actually dealing with.

cheers

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

Also note that my water temp is always in the 18-22 range if that matters.

[Robert Silvers]

One thing I found interesting is that a fiber laser can put beautiful white marks onto nylon but the C02 makes much less defined black marks on the same material.

Seems like if you want to engrave plastic, C02 can do it, but it will be way less nice looking than fiber.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Depends on the plastic type Rob, fiber is 1064nm co2 is 10,600nm

18 - 22 is a great temp to run at but is only part of the story, it's the gas in the tube when subject to a more powerful arc that takes longer to degrade back to an unpumped state.

cheers

Dave

[David Somers]

Robert,

I am new to the Forum. Appreciate you sharing so much info on this purchase.

I am curious. What brought you to buy a laser in the first place?
How do you plan to use it?
Do you have graphic arts in your background?
Assuming you are going to use this for a business, how do you see this fitting in? Do you plan on this being the primary tool for your business or is this now one tool among others for what you do? Or...please don't take this to be dismissing this use....are you primarily a hobbiest?

I ask because I am eligible to retire now from my job as an IT Specialist with the US National Park Service. When I finally make the decision to retire I would like to take my serious hobby of woodturning, and make it at least a semi paying hobby. I have been looking into laser engraving for some of the things I like to do on various types of turnings. I have been pondering between the "rent time or pay someone to do the burning" approach, and the buy a laser and do it myself approach. I have a hard time seeing something like an Epilog being cost effective for me given the high purchase price, but am not sure yet. Much would depend on how often I made use of it for my work, how my wife made use of it, and what kinds of things we grew into. I will certainly start with the "pay someone else" approach for now to see what that looks like. I am always interested in how others are using this. I get the impression of lots of folks on this forum are hard core businesses based on a mix of things, not just the laser.

All that is a long way of describing why I was asking the questions I did! (I am chatty if you hadn't guessed already!)

Thanks in advance! If any of the others on this thread feel like piping up with their answers to this I will read them all eagerly!

Thanks!

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

I have a background in photography, design, and computer science. I also have a lathe, mill, welder, and other tools at home. I got it because I may sell a product that has some parts that I would have had to outsource to a company with a laser. I don't see any chance of making money selling laserable items directly as a source of profit, but think it can work if they are parts within other items.

I could have outsourced, and that is more practical - at least in the beginning, except that I enjoy it. After having it, I now know that I can rush through variations so quickly that I would never have paid someone else to spend the hours doing what I am doing with it, and would have settled for less evolved part designs. All in all, I don't find the price that expensive even as a toy, considering that other people would buy an ATV for fun.

Also my son is finding it fun to make things. He wanted a toy knife so I traced a Rambo knife and cut it out if MDF for him. So I enjoy it as a hobbyist. I have had an interest in lasers for decades and just like stuff like this.

[David Somers]

Thanks Robert! That tells me a lot, very appreciated!

Dave

[Kev Williams]

OK, a question or two for Robert, and/or anyone else who cares to chime in!

First, your thread about this laser has really peaked my interest in the Triumph. Between your experience, your pics (especially the steel marking and ceramic tile engraving), and what I've found searching around the 'net, I decided on giving Triumph a shot. I've been emailing back and forth with Triumph Lasers since last night, and have gotten pricing on models and features. I must confess the 'lost in translation' thing is a bit frustrating, but the prices for what I want are worth the gobbledygook!

So now the questions: The machine is standard with an 80 watt tube. Based on Richard's tests I at least want the 100 watt, but I'm seriously considering the 130 watt tube. My big laser is only 40 watts, that's what I'm used to. My primary use is putting text and graphics on anodized aluminum and marking SS via Cermark, and lots of Rowmark engraving-- but not so much cutting of anything- yet anyway. I've also just picked up a customer that will be needing 1/16" deep text in 4' long sections of poplar on a regular basis. Would the 130 watt laser really help much? I figure it might speed up the stainless etching and it should help with deep wood cuts, and I'd like to be able to get decent Cermark results on aluminum. I also realize the cost of replacing a 130w tube and/or power supply down the road will be subtantially more than replacing 100w equipment. Are there other issues with "too much power"?

Second question, below is a picture I send to customers who ask about small engraving- on a machine this large (48x36-ish), am I going to see nice crisp SMALL text and graphics like I get now?

Back to laser tubes-- Richard, you said you specified a Reci Z4 tube, is the 130 watt tube a different part number? I'm getting quoted using Reci tubes, but no part numbers...

Thanks everyone! That all said, I've also sent AP Lasers an inquiry, haven't heard back yet. Their "no bottom" machines open the mind up..

[Robert Silvers]

Be careful. Some people call the Z4 130 watt. It is 130 peak but really 100. A true 130 won't fit this size machine. If you want more than a Z4 you need a larger machine. I can proof read any quotes for you and catch areas of concern.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Anything much over an 80 watt DC tube may be too much for routine engraving, these tubes have a minimum level they will fire at(usually 12 - 15%) and a 130 may sometimes be too much for the job at that power level.

RECI Tubes

W2:
Length: 1120mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 80 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 85 Watts
Working Current: 27 Ma

W4:
Length: 1400mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 100 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 120 Watts
Working Current: 28 Ma

W6:
Length: 1650mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 130 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 150 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma

W8:
Length: 1850mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 150 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 180 Watts
Working Current: <30 Ma

Also remember beam quality from an RF tube is usually much better than from a DC tube.

cheers

dave

[Robert Silvers]

Mine does not really work at 10%. It works at 15%. I never tried anything between 10 and 15. I have so far not found anything where I wish that I had less power. I do want to cut things that would benefit from more power. But I only have a week's experience.

[Kev Williams]

Richard, I'm looking at the 1600x900 machine, so the bigger tube should fit--

Dave, so too much power CAN be an issue, that's what I wanted to hear, thank you! And, I note your PN's start with a "W", Richard stated his is a "Z"- Newer model(s)?

Now, as for the intricacies of lasers- Aside from watching my dad engrave and him showing me how to sharpen cutters, I'm a totally self-taught engraver, full-time since 1975. I bought our used Universal circa late 2000, and 3 years later when it wouldn't keep up with the work I had for it I bought the LS900 new. My machine guy dropped 'em off, showed me how they worked, and THATS all I know about lasers! I've learned how to make my lasers sing & dance, and I understand the generalities of their workings... I've torn 'em both apart (to some degree) and put 'em back together, etc... but measuring mA's, knowing a DC tube from an RF tube, and most other electronic science about these things is greek to me!

I build a lot of aluminum operator panels, and the quality of my work is why I keep getting more-- It won't do me much good to buy a laser that can mark 4 panels at a time instead of just one if the text & graphics end up looking like a caveman did it! Should I assume my Universal and French-made Gravograph have RF tubes? I have no idea, but the engraving quality on both is great IMO, although the big machine has a banding issue that drives me nuts, but that's another story...

Should I be able to get this Triumph laser with an RF tube? Is DC vs RF a tradeoff result of higher power?

Since joining this forum, I'm amazed at what I don't know!

[Robert Silvers]

I see C02 as for cutting organic material - wood or acrylic, or engraving glass, stone, or tile.

A C02 can only mark painted or anodized aluminum. If you want high quality marks on aluminum, you are better off with YAG or Fiber. They are about $15,000 to $20,000 for a Chinese one.

C02 engraving is fuzzy if you get really close.