My bathroom has three outlets. The two next to the sinks have to be gfci, but how about the one in the wall? It is 4' from the nearest water.
I bought the led nightlight-outlet someone recommended in another thread here and just thought of gfci...
[OP]
Member
My bathroom has three outlets. The two next to the sinks have to be gfci, but how about the one in the wall? It is 4' from the nearest water.
I bought the led nightlight-outlet someone recommended in another thread here and just thought of gfci...
Member
I install them when ever I change out a plug or add them at the head of the circuit. They are more expensive but I like the little extra safety they provide. As I re-wire I also add the circuit breakers too in areas that it makes sense to have them.
David B
Member
They all need to be GFCI protected in the bathroom.
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interruption for personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (C). The ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
Informational Note: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel on feeders.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1)
Bathrooms
(2)
Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
(3)
Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.
(4)
Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5)
Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to 210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).
(6)
Kitchens— where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces
(7)
Sinks — located in areas other than kitchens where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink
(8)
Boathouses
Member
Another thing to add here is that, like it or not, for dwelling type units, if it's not required by the NEC to be GFCI protected, it is probably required to be AFCI protected, with very few if any exceptions.
[OP]
Member
Got it, required by code. Thanks.
I have a spare AFCI breaker, but that won't quite cut it despite tripping at 50ma ground fault.
Contributor
Are you sure this outlet isn't fed by one of the GFI outlets so it already has GFI protection? It is typical in a bathroom to have just one GFI that protects all outlets in the bathroom.Originally Posted by Wade Lippman
In older homes when GFIs were first required in bathrooms in the late 70s one GFI receptacle was often used to protect outlets in multiple bathrooms. GFI receptacles were so expensive at first it was cheaper to run more wire than to install multiple GFI receptacles. My parent's house was built in 1979 and has two bathrooms, the garage door opener, and the outside outlets all on one circuit due to needing GFI protection. It is a miracle that circuit doesn't trip the breaker due to overload. Nobody would do that today as GFIs are relatively cheap compared to the cost of wire and labor.
Guest
A simple GFCI tester like this is always good to have around. Not only will it tell you if the outlet is on circuit protected by a GFCI, it will also indicate whether the outlet is wired correctly
Less than $10 from Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon, etc
Tester.jpg
[OP]
Member
No, there are two GFCI outlets and two circuits in the bathroom.
I am thinking I can move this outlet from the panel box to a largely unused GFCI outlet next to the panel box.
I know you can't mix bathroom and non-bathroom outlets on the same circuit (at least I think I know that...) but the bathroom already has one dedicated circuit; does the second one have to be dedicated also?
If so, I am in trouble. I wired my house in 1975 and put all GFCI outlets (bath, garage and exterior) on one GFCI panel breaker. It passed inspection. But code has changed in 38 years.
Contributor
Like Brian said, about weird things happening in the 70's (talkin' about electrical stuff here). My house built in '78 or '79 has a GFI in the downstairs bathroom which also serves the hall lights next to it, the master bath lights upstairs, the main upstairs bathroom lighting and plug, and...........an outside plug next to the back door that is no where near any of the other stuff. That one has been redone during the remodel. It took us a while to figure out why lights upstairs didn't work sometimes.
As John said, a tester is great to have. Be aware that older houses without grounded wiring may have a GFI added in the bathroom with no ground wire. The GFI will work in this case, but that tester will not trip it. The proper test in that case is to just push the button. (Not an electrician, but it's in the HUD inspection manual for Section 8 housing. Don't ask, it's a looong story.)
Rick Potter
Member
The code requires at least one dedicated 20 amp branch circuit for the bathroom receptacle outlets in each dwelling unit. It states that these circuits shall have no other outlets. In other words, no you can't feed other types of rooms. The only exception to this is if the circuit only supplies one single bathroom. Then the required circuit can feed other types of outlets, like lights, fan etc. There is some terminology that must be kept straight. "Outlet" can be any point on a circuit that uses electricity, i.e. lighting or receptacle. The code did not always require things this way, so of course if your house was wired before this, you don't need to rewire.
[OP]
Member
My master bath currently has two dedicated circuits. One has two outlets by the sinks; the second has a single outlet on a wall. (There is a third circuit for lights, shared with the bedroom).
So, if the circuit by the sinks is dedicated, can the second circuit be changed to be shared with an outlet in the basement?
Member
No.
NEC article 210.11(C)(3) states "Such circuits shall have no other outlets." In other words, the circuit(s) must be dedicated 20 amp circuits to the bathroom receptacles, and they cannot serve any other outlets. Again, the only exception is if the circuit stays in the same bathroom, it can supply the lights, fan, heater etc. in that same bathroom. These circuits could supply the receptacles in multiple bathrooms, but then they must only serve receptacles. They cannot however serve other rooms.
Contributor
Wade
You can't assume that your bathroom needs remediation.
While on the surface it appears that your bath may not meet the "current revision of the code". It does not mean that your bathroom did not meet code at the time of installation. There have been many changes to the code regarding thecement and requirements of GFCI's since their introduction.
I can state for a fact that the code used to specify "at least one GFCI Protected circuit for the bathroom(s)"and detailed placement. After that you could theoretically install a hundred non GFCI proctected outlets, and as long as at least one circuit was GFCI protected and the outlets that met the requirement for a GFCI because of the sink, you were good. Even the requirements for sink, tub and shower distances has changed.
I've seen it measured from the drain, the faucet, the edge, etc.
The code changes and evolves as time goes on and GFCI's have been a part of the code since the 70's. Add in the delays for state and local adherence and there are gaps in application.
David G. Baker has a good solution. Install a GFCI in that outlet if it's bothering you.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
Contributor
I believe the OP's dilemma is he wants to install an outlet that has an LED night light and outlet all in one. He doesn't have an option to install a GFCI in that outlet. He already has another circuit in the bathroom with two GFCI protected outlets. I believe his question is if all bathroom outlets need to GFCI protected.
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