Rough first impressions of LN #5 versus LV #4 1/2

[Chris Hachet]

I have both the L-N LA jack and smoother and like both. An advantage of the LV LA smoother might be its simpler blade adjuster with no need for yoke plates and LV's blade selection.

The new PMV 111 steel in the blades would certainly work in favor of the L-V/Veritas plane, now wouldn't it....hmmm....I may have to think about this one....

[Chris Hachet]

The LN 5 is a bit of a strange bird, though (in that jacks of all size and shape are very easy to find cheaply, and its attributes in how it differs vs. a common bench plane don't really translate to better use as a jack - e.g., it's flatter, heavier and has a thicker iron - the net effect of all of that is, in my opinion, less desirable for jacking than stock stanley planes). If I refrained from sending it back to LN, I would sell it on ebay as there will still be someone who wants it just because it's lie nielsen.

Interesting, I almost had the same thought after using a friend's L-N #5....I've used the same Vintage Stanley for the last 25 years or so, and its done fine as a Jack plane...The L-N plane I really lust after is the 5 and 1/4 "Junior Jack" as I think it would be nice as a small jointer. Since I tend to build stuff a little on the smaller side, and since I use my regular #5 Stanley to Joint with, and Jack with....a 5 and 1/4 might do nicely for me at some point.

[Chris Hachet]

I've always found that as attractive and professional as Lee Valley's photos are, their planes end up looking more attractive in person than the photos. That's actually a nice change compared to some places in the rest of the world, where the photos are definitely over-re-worked pictures of cherry picked examples, and not representative of what you'll eventually end up with!

I have a LN jack, although it's bevel-up; and have been thinking of picking up a vintage jack to complement it. It works fine enough for roughing work, but like Dave says, the super-flatness and fine mouth are overkill for a plane you're using for rough work, and the extra weight of a modern plane is actually somewhat of a hinderance in rough work where you're slinging it around for a long period of time.

That said, the extra precision does make it amenable to other tasks - it finds a decent amount of use in the shooting board, and for tiny work, which I end up doing more of than I anticipated, I end up reaching for it over the jointer for making things perfectly true, and basically all the jobs you're grab a jointer for for normally sized work.

That said, along the same weight concerns, I'd really love a jointer plane with the precision of a Lie Nielsen, and the weight of my vintage Millers Falls. Jacks I don't find the need for precision, and smoothers aren't hard to tune up to adequate performance as needed, but in my limited experience, jointers are worth the extra money for a nice one. (although I got by for quite some time with a particularly un-ideal jointer) That's one where I find weight a real bother over time. I ended up with a Clifton jointer for a song, and that thing outweights even the LN #7 - I'm beginning to think of turning that one around. I'm thinking a wooden jointer might be the way to go - light weight, and ideally I could keep it in accurate shape if I'm willing to invest the work in tuning it as needed.

I am actually thinking of getting an ECE wooden Jointer as I like your idea of a lighter Jointer plane...and a plus one to a lighter, cruder Jack plane in the form of a Stanley.

[Chris Hachet]

I have an LV BU Smoother and it is my favourite plane bar none! I even went as far as buying a bronze #3 LN a while back after being convinced that I would really love the BD planes once I tried them, and while it is a very nice, cool looking tool that is also very well built, I find the LV BUS to be a much nicer plane to use and I get a nicer job with less fuss. I am not knocking LN at all, but I too was a bit shocked I found such a difference. That said, I still like the LN, but I do find myself almost always reaching for the BUS over the #3 when the situation calls...

I also think once you get used to making one tool work for your needs, it is hard to switch to another so that may have a lot to do with preferences...

Swarz idea of plane monogamy rears its head....hmmm....another vote for the L-V...I'll have to think about this one. And also, a plus one for the L-V 3 Bronze...its on my bucket list.

[Chris Hachet]

Thank for all the input. I decided to throw caution to the wind and just call them. They agreed to take the plane back after I told them the situation. I'm going to exchange it for a full set of chisels and buy some DVD's along the way.

I hadn't used the LV any more than the LN but it was just so much easier to set up and seemed to just fit me first go. I was even using it with mouth wide open and fairly thick cut ala jack plane.

Like David, I am glad it worked out for you...and also glad you enjoy the LN Chisels...I love them....

[Chris Hachet]

If you exchanged the ln #5 for chisels, that's not a bad move. You can find a decent vintage jack plane for 20 or 30 bucks. Just use the chisels and ignore magazine and blog articles about chisels after you get them and form your own opinion.

Charlie's point about lumber is a good one, though. Find a decent local sawyer if you can so you can get respectably sawn wood from the same tree and still pay half of a retailers charges for stacks of common low density garbage, and do a search on craigslist for "lumber" or "rough" lumber and treat yourself to inexpensive quality lumber.

...also...talk to other wood workers. I've got some stuff from some old growth trees that has been sitting since the 1930's another woodworker is offering to sell me.

[Tony Wilkins]

Ralph, I have a couple of old street planes - smoother and jack. I also have an Ohio tools wooden try. I thought I was set with these but found I had trouble holding the front in use. I have a union #5 with a tote that was damaged in shipping (threaded rod won't screw down) that I found much more comfortable to use and started me looking.

[Tony Wilkins]

Another thought to add to my confusion; when I called they suggested I try a low angle jack (#62)? I know we talked about it a little before but...

[Hilton Ralphs]

Another thought to add to my confusion; when I called they suggested I try a low angle jack (#62)? I know we talked about it a little before but...

The Veritas is better though. It has those nice set screws in the side to keep the blade centred and to retain the setting when you take out the blade for sharpening.

[Tony Wilkins]

That's what I keep coming back to. LV just seems to have a better grasp of the small things that make it more enjoyable for me.

I order an extra blade for the 4 1/2 to grind with a camber.

[Jim Koepke]

That's what I keep coming back to. LV just seems to have a better grasp of the small things that make it more enjoyable for me.

LV is creating revolutionary innovations in plane design.

LN is making replicas of Stanley planes at a higher quality than Stanley ever considered.

They are both making very fine tools for different markets.

My LN #62 works great in my shop, even with the need to occasionally tap the side of the blade with a small mallet.

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

The Veritas is better though. It has those nice set screws in the side to keep the blade centred and to retain the setting when you take out the blade for sharpening.

This whole discussion seems rather subjective. Better for you is not better for me. I love the LV products especially the router plane and chisels. On the other hand, I really dislike the totes on the LV planes. For my hands, the LN totes are far more comfortable.

On the other hand, to me a difference in a jack plane is relatively unimportant. Stanleys or others do fine for me. Smoothers, on the other hand, I use a a precision instrument (one might legitimately argue that my skills are not commensurate to the instrument). I care far more there (he says having three smoothers - (1) LN with standard frog, (1) with HAF or gnarly grain, & an old Stanley type 11, #4.

[Winton Applegate]

Hilton,

Either you have a "unique" style all your own or you need to turn off your automatic sub spell checker.
Makes for some entertaining reading from our angle though.


(maybe you shouldn't turn it off)

I agree with you though.

[Winton Applegate]

I really dislike the totes on the LV planes

You are right of coarse that every body has to judge for them selves . . . how ever . . .

Do you own any of the LV planes ?
The reason I ask is BEFORE I bought and used an LV long term I thought the totes on LVs were plane Jane and they just cut corners.
AFTER
I spent a great deal of time on both LN and LV I can "testify" (he said quaking and eyes rolling heavenwards palm out stretched; fervor on his lips)

The LVs ain't bad. Better than pretty good, they are fine FOR ME and actually the LN bevel up jack's beautifully curvaceous and larger handle hurts my palm with a chronic bruising that I finally had to adapt to.

For any one on the fence I would recommend buying at least one LV and giving it heck for a few weeks before writing them off.

PS: photos are of my LV BU large finish plane. LOVE THAT PLANE.
I made this bubbinga table in my shop, moved it up stairs into the living space and it changed enough I had to re flatten it before finish planing it. I planed on finish planing it after I moved it because it is so heavy I figured I would mar it up a bit just moving it. Anyway LVBU and I have spent quite a bit of time together.
Pretty much not going to put more force through the handle than on this extra hard sheee . . . wood. (whoa almost lost another point there).

PPS: David W and David B,
This here's what "real" sharpening looks like boys.

[Hilton Ralphs]

On the other hand, I really dislike the totes on the LV planes. For my hands, the LN totes are far more comfortable.

This does seem to be a trend strangely enough. Although nothing like a rasp to fix the shape of the tote hey? It seems infinitely easier than trying to retrofit another brand of plane with the niceties that Veritas throws in. They even give you free templates to show you where to correctly drill the appropriate holes for the mounting bolts. Nothing stops you modifying the overall shape after that.