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Thread: Jointer question for the SMC pro's...

  1. #1
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    Jointer question for the SMC pro's...

    I am restoring a very old DURO jointer. The knives just rest in a groove and are held in place by the gibs. They do not touch the bottom of the grooves. There are no leveling screws. At least that's the case with the knives that were in there when I got the machine.

    My question is... couldn't I just by wider knives that would rest at the bottom of the groove. This seems that it would make adjustments/replacement significantly easier. Even if the bottom of the groove wasn't square to the table, raising one end of the knife would be easire then trying to balance the knife in the air before tightening.

    Does this make sense?

  2. #2
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    John, it sounds like you have a good excuse to buy a set of Jointer Pals and it would be a lot cheaper than a new set of custom blades.
    Hartville sells them: http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11094
    Please help support the Creek.


    During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies. Does anyone know if there is anything planned when this one ends?

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  3. #3
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    I did see a similar product, but wasn't sure if this was "gimmicky" or if folks are really using it.

    Fortunately, the blades I thinking of using are off the shelf items.


    Thanks, Bruce.

  4. #4

    jointer pals

    I made my own.
    I took a piece of 1/4 plate glass 5 1/4 x 12"
    and super glue 4 rare earth magnets to it.
    2 to hold the glass to the outfeed table 2 to snatch
    the knives.
    Per
    "all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
    T.E. Lawrence

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Harris
    I did see a similar product, but wasn't sure if this was "gimmicky" or if folks are really using it.

    Fortunately, the blades I thinking of using are off the shelf items.


    Thanks, Bruce.
    John, I bought a pair of "Planner Pals" for my 15" planner after struggling trying to set the blades with the OEM jig. The Planner Pals worked great.
    Be sure to post some pictures of your restored jointer!
    Please help support the Creek.


    During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies. Does anyone know if there is anything planned when this one ends?

    ---

  6. #6
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    I had to buy a set of planer pals to use on my old jointer. It didn't have leveling screws, or an adjustable outfeed. It worked pretty well. I haven't have the need to use it on my PM yet.
    Last edited by Bill Lewis; 05-25-2005 at 7:27 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
    Delton,Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Per Swenson
    I made my own.
    I took a piece of 1/4 plate glass 5 1/4 x 12"
    and super glue 4 rare earth magnets to it.
    2 to hold the glass to the outfeed table 2 to snatch
    the knives.
    Per
    hey per. on your jointer glass jig, did you put the mags on top so that the glass is touching the table and the knives come up to the same plane.? as i understood it i could see a mag thickness causing troubles otherwize. just a differnt picture in my mind perhaps
    If in Doubt? Build it Stought!

  8. #8

    Here you go,

    Sorry If I confuse Larry,
    The internet can be confusing
    and in my hubris I assume people know
    what I am talking about.
    The glass I had.
    Magnets too.
    Same with the glue.
    Construction time, 1 minute.
    100% effective.
    The magnets go up.
    It is so cool when the knives "pink" against the glass.
    Time to adjust the knives, as fast as you can
    quarter turn the gib bolt.
    Hope this helps those who don't need another gadget.
    Per
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
    T.E. Lawrence

  9. #9
    Per,

    That is a great idea thanks for sharing it!
    Jeff Sudmeier

    "It's not the quality of the tool being used, it's the skills of the craftsman using the tool that really matter. Unfortunately, I don't have high quality in either"

  10. #10
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    Charleston, SC, USA.
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    per - If you haven't already done so, you ought to submit that idea to the WW magazines. That's about as simple and effective an idea as I've seen.

  11. #11
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    Per - thanks for the new explanation. I had the idea backwards also. I am heading to the store in ten minutes for my magnets.


    Ps...I also liked your thoughts on people hard selling their favorite ideas from another thread.

  12. #12

    Setting jointer knives

    And to think for 30 years, I was borrowing two bar magnets from the science department. Now why didn't they have this "new fangled" stuff when I was teaching. E! gads!
    Some people are just dumb and then there is me. In another world.
    Daniel
    Per, what a GREAT idea. Now remember to hold the magnets close to the front edge of the glass, that the knives are "plinking up to", so that you can get the wrench down in to tighten the nuts. Or is that just a given - huh?
    "Howdy" from Southwestern PA

  13. #13
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    Hi John...
    In a nutshell, NO! Cutting knives is not easy as they are hardened steel. Easy to make a mess of things, hard to do it neat and with accuracy.

    Then you need to consider that each time you sharpen your knives, you loose a bit when they come back from the sharpener.

    You also need to consider how much of a projection you wish to have. Not enough and you polish your cutter cylinder with your work. To much and the knives can break off and make a huge amount of noise. This is windage at work. On larger machines, this projection is about 3/32 inch. You need to consult your makers manual to find this. This projection works for my oliver and porter jointers and planers.

    Then you need to consider that the knives not only need the right projection but need to be parallel to the outfeed table. You can take up a tiny bit of cutter axis misalignment by keeping one side higher than the other. The important thing is that the knife TIPS are parallel to the outfeed table.

    The problem with relying on jointer pals or Per's clever idea is that your outfeed table height has to be set just right to maintain the correct projection. One way to check this is to use a straight edge in the middle of the outfeed table spanning the cutter head cylinder. Raise the outfeed table or lower it until you can stick a 3/32 inch feeler gage under the staight edge and the cylinder. Now you can use your jointer pals or Per magnetic glass. But also try your best to evenly clamp the jig when you make it so that the glue layer under all four magnets is the same thickness otherwise your projection will vary by this amount.

    Not all jointers have lifting screws. In fact, virutally all olivers do not have these. Instead, there is a hole where the lifting screw would go but no provisions for a lifting screw. One method I use to set blades on both my oliver planer and oliver jointer is to use the following gizzmo. This is home made mini slide hammer. You install the knife and finger tighten the gib bolts. Just tight enough to keep the kife from dropping down. Then using a indicator, carfefully and with finese pop the hammer until the knife comes into place. Do this along all three holes along each knife.

    If your using jointer pals or planer pals, you should engrave or wright down or do something to maintain your projection settings. The big issue with these items is that they assume you have not pulled a knife and that the knife is at its correct projection. Not always a safe assumption. These are hard to set if your working from scratch.

    I have also found the Oneway multi gage handy for working on jointers. This is esp. true when checking and adjusting alignment of the cutter head axis to the outfeed table lip and in setting knife projections. I also use jointer pals as needed as well. In addition, a good machinist's straight edge is a godsend when it comes to working on jointers! Jointers are simple machines but they can be a rightous pain if your not dialing them in accurately. This is why I do not reccommend the independent way jointers to newbies. Its hard enough to dial in a powermatic wedge bed or delta DJ parallelogram jointer. Independents like the oliver 166 and the general 12 and 16 inch jointers can be very frustrating for those who have never done this before.

    Best of luck...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dev Emch; 05-25-2005 at 12:04 PM.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  14. #14
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    I just read that Per is using super glue. This is good as its thin nature speads out annd minimizes the glue layer. When I saw this done the first time, the person had used silicone rubber. Needless to say, he had a variety of issues.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  15. #15

    clarification

    Mr Emch wrote,
    "But also try your best to evenly clamp the jig when you make it so that the glue layer under all four magnets is the same thickness otherwise your projection will vary by this amount."


    Lets not make this complicated. The glass rests on the outfeed table,
    the magnets on top of the glass. Glue thickness will not interfere
    with the magnetic force, the glass is flat. Take another look at the picture.


    Daniel,
    the glass is not as wide as the knives.
    this way with the fence off you can catch both outside nuts.
    Its easier to hold the magnets back 3/8ths or so to
    catch TDC.

    Folks, thank you all for your kind words, but this is not a original idea
    and my apologys for not stating that.
    For the life of me I can not remember where it came from,
    but I am sure its been around as long as the 1958 delta jointer
    pictured. To submit it would be plagarism.

    Thank you all.
    Per
    "all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
    T.E. Lawrence

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