Varnish and Beeswax?

["Patrick G Rainsberger"]

I have 6 coats of a varnish (P&L #38 Satin) on a rocking chair that I made from Hard rock maple. These 6 coats are over a water based dye (transtint). The formula I used was approximately 1/3 Varnish to 2/3 Mineral Spirits. I brushed in on as fast as I could and wiped it down immediately. It took about nine days to put on. I really like what I have now but there is a slight tackiness to it. There is very little sanding that I need to do.
I would like to put a final coat on with a bees wax added to the varnish.
Is this possible – do these two mix together?
Any suggestions.

[Steve Schoene]

You have a minimal coating of varnish on the chair. .Whether it is sufficient depends on how the chair will be used. But, in any event, it should not be tacky, so if it is, you have a problem--perhaps "over the hill" varnish. If it doesn't continue to cure to a solid film you should think about stripping it off and starting over--varnish that will not cure is not a suitable base for another top coat.

I can't quite fathom what benefits obtain by mixing wax with varnish. It won't solve a problem with varnish that does not cure.

[glenn bradley]

I would not mix wax with varnish. That being said. the only cure I know for tacky varnish that is minimally intrusive is time. The thicker coats I put on table tops are "dry to the touch" in a few days but, I give them several weeks to fully cure before being put to work. YMMV.

["Patrick G Rainsberger"]

Steve,
I brought the chair up to the house overnight and it has lost the tack. It had only been one day since the last coat. I'm told not go too long in between coats.
You say I have a minimal coating of varnish on the chair. What would be an appropriate amount?

Glenn,
If the varnish is not tacky, why would you not mix varnish and beeswax.
I'm loosely taking information from Sam Maloof. I realize that I do not have an oil in the varnish mix, but he used it for the final coating on his world famous chairs.

[Prashun Patel]

The maloof step 2 finish is a mixture of oil and wax, not varnish and wax. If you really need to wax it, there is no need to mix it with anything.

["Patrick G Rainsberger"]

Prashun,
I have on hand Johnson's Paste wax and a beeswax mixture (mineral oil + beeswax) that I mixed way too much of last year.
Will any of these work?
If not, can you give me your suggestions on products that work best with my wiping varnish mix.

[Sam Stephens]

Whoa! Sounds like you've got some confusion:

oil/varnish mixes use a polymerizing oil such as linseed oil, blo or tung oil, but not mineral oil mixed w/ varnish (poly, alkyd, etc). this finish is flooded on and wiped off. this gives the "in the wood" finish and is typically only applied as 2 coats b/c you're not building a film. These oils have solvents that will evaporate as opposed to mineral oil which won't. The oils themselves polymerize/cure hard so they don't remain as oils unlike mineral oil. This finish can also be mixed w/ wax or top coated w/ wax.

wiping varnish -aka varnish thinned w/ ms is wiped on thin and left on to dry (solvent evap), not wiped off. After numerous coats you build a film, but not if you wipe it off. 6 coats may not be enough, especially if you've wiped it off, tho YMMV. Look for a very even sheen as a guide. I usually go a couple more thin coats after that. This finish can also be top coated w/ wax. Don't oil over varnish (or other film finishes), that would be a mess.

Beeswax in mineral oil is great for cutting boards b/c you don't want a brittle finish that cures hard like varnish or even blo. But as stated above, the mineral oil doesn't evaporate so this would leave you're rocking chair feeling quite oily.

Wax as a topcoat -paste wax like Johnson's or wax (bees, paraffin, etc) dissolved in MS (not mineral oil) is fine.

Sorry if you knew this, but there were some oddities in your OP....

Sam

[Prashun Patel]

Both are fine, but the necessity of waxing at all is dubious.

If it were me, I'd let your piece sit for a couple weeks. Use it, feel it. If you like it, skip the wax. The only reason the wax is used is to fill in uneven pores, and to bring the sheen down from a gloss. On hard maple, and for a low build wiping varnish like you've applied, I the sheen might settle down on its own with time. The other place wax has worked for me is when I rub out a finish like shellac with very fine abrasives and the piece looks chalky after. A waxing can then restore the luster and is a little easier to work with than putting on one more flawless coat of finish. Rubbing out might not be neccesary for thin film or no-film varnish applications. However, it's an aesthetic choice. My advice tho is to wait before waxing and decide later.

["Patrick G Rainsberger"]

Sam,
I was responding to Prashun's suggestion that I not mix the wax with anything, but put it on by itself.
I have read in other posts from SMC to wet sand the final wipe on varnish with mineral oil.
Since my beeswax mixture has mineral oil in it and it has the consistency of the paste wax, I was asking whether I could use this mixture, or the Johnson's paste wax or any other wax finish that he could suggest as the final finish after a couple of weeks drying time on the varnish mix.
I know you can't mix tung oil, BLO, Varnish with mineral oil.
The beeswax mixture was made for cutting boards.
It now makes sense, the mineral oil will not dry.
Thanks,
Pat

["Patrick G Rainsberger"]

Thanks Prashun,
That's pretty much what I wanted to hear.
Put a few more coats of varnish mix on (I've already put another coat on this morning)
I'll apply 2 or 3 more.
Then, leave it alone!
Pat

[Steve Schoene]

You have about the same amount of varnish as if you brushed on 1 coat of full strength varnish, mostly "in the wood". If you expect gentle use that will be ok for a year or two, after which you will have to refresh the finish. Personally I like about 6 coats of wiping varnish, mixed 50-50 varnish and thinner, applied in very thin coats, but NOT wiped off. You don't need to wipe off varnish in the same way you would a mix of drying oil and varnish. It dries hard, usually overnight is fine for touching or recoating, but a full month for nearly full cure.

Wax can be used as a final treatment if you like the appearance--it has no other significant benefits and means relatively frequent reapplications to keep it looking fresh. Mixing wax with mineral oil makes no sense, since the mineral oil doesn't cure, just stays liquid until it has been wiped off over time as the item is used. Sometimes this is used for cutting boards but isn't useful for furniture. (You don't want the oil to rub off on the clothes of the initial users, for one thing.)

[Pete McMahon]

[QUOTE=Prashun Patel;2133353]Both are fine, but the necessity of waxing at all is dubious.

The only reason the wax is used is to fill in uneven pores, and to bring the sheen down from a gloss

Really? You have a lot to learn. While it may not pertain to the OP's chair have you ever heard of cire-remplie? A gloss surface can be enhanced by a wax treatment. I restored the woodwork in an historic library a while back. While admiring the finish still intact on much of the woodwork I said to the librarian "I wonder what the finish is?" (circa 1910) She produced a document stating "it was coated with a varnish containing beeswax" The beeswax was added to the varnish as a flatting paste. It had an incredibly soft look and feel. Today silica and other products are used to create satin varnishes. That may answer Steve's question on not fathoming why anyone would do it.

[Pete McMahon]

Patrick,

Waxing a piece of furniture is not dubious or bad. However on a chair I would think twice.
Don't use dark wax on the seat or back, the heat of a body may possibly activate it and you can imagine the results.
It's interesting that you asked the question of putting wax in a varnish. What prompted it? If you want to play around with that theory remember wax has the same thinner that an oil based varnish does, mineral spirits. Just for fun on a few sample boards, try a couple variations. Add a small amount of wax by volume and see what your results are. It may be a sloppy non drying mess; it could be a slow drying surface with an interesting look and feel when done.
I'm most interested in what prompted your question though. Just to feed your curiosity you can't imagine how many recipes and variations there are for wax polishes.

[Pete McMahon]

it has no other significant benefits and means relatively frequent reapplications to keep it looking fresh. )

Steve, the final part of your sentence is incorrect. Wax is very stable and requires treatment on rare occasions. If it is on a dinning table you may have point if the table is under hard use. Normally all a wax finish requires is a gentle buffing to make it look fresh again. I have many pieces of furniture with a waxed surface and I rarely if ever need the "frequent application" you stated.

[Prashun Patel]

Follow pete's advice. He is an expert and a professional and i am not. I have a lot to learn.