Horizontal panel raiser remarks

[John Piwaron]

Just a few remarks/observations about using a horizontal panel raiser router bit.

First, the results look great. Best ever for me using any kind of panel raising router bit. I have two - a horizontal panel raiser and a vertical panel raiser.

The horizontal bit is a Freud quadra cut. My vertical is made by Whiteside. The Freud, in addition to the quadra cut feature, is also an anti-kickback design. The smoothness of the surface off the bit is great. Smoother, I think, than what the Whiteside will yield. I've known for quite some time that I would be making parts with that bit. That fact is one reason behind why I built a new router table and equipped it with all manner of doodads. A Jessem lift, a tall fence, a miter gauge slot and a Micro Fence.

But the one thing I don't have for the table is a powerful router. I have a Bosch 1617EVS in it.

I'm not sure where I read it, but I found advise about these big bits that said the preferred way to sneak up on your finished cut was to not raise the bit incrementally, but to instead set the bit at the desired height, then start with the fence forward of where it would be for the final cut. So that's what I did. I snuck up on what I wanted by locating the bit at the finished height, then moving the fence back about 1/16" at a time until I was done.

Here's were some learning happened. The first cut was the most difficult. Like the first pass when you clear deep snow from your drive with your snowblower. This is where I knew the Bosch wasn't really the router for the task. It's the only time I thought I'd be able to stall a router while making a cut. Every cut following that was pretty much the "same old, same old". There were many cuts after that first one just 'cause I knew the router didn't really have the muscle it should have had.

But eventually the job was done. The results look great. Smooth, no chattering, no burning, edges clean straight and sharp. No tear out. At all. Even when it was cutting against the grain.

I'm tempted to say flat out that the Freud bit is far better than the Whiteside. Maybe it is. But there are too many factors at work to make that strong of a statement. Even though it's also carbide, my Whiteside bit is old. It doesn't have the two extra "quadra cutters". The manner of it's use is significantly different than that of a horizontal bit. Even so, I liked the results of the horizontal bit more. I think I'll be using this kind of bit more in the future.

I also think I'll be buying the biggest baddest router possible for the table.

Some may suggest a shaper. And I'm willing to consider one, but that's a step that would require knowing that I'd be making a lot of projects that need that much power.

[Rick Potter]

Hey John,

Try setting your fence at the final cut. Then take some scraps of Masonite or whatever and cut them to fit on each side of your fence. Let's say two layers of 1/4" and closest to the fence one layer of 1/8". Hold them with a simple spring clamp. Make an initial cut, remove a 1/4" piece, make a second cut, remove the other 1/4" piece. You will now have only a 1/8" spacer left. Make another cut, remove the final 1/8" piece, and make your show cut.

Easy, no moving of fences or bit settings. It worked fine for me when I did a whole raised panel oak kitchen 15 years ago, using a bench top router table and a PC690 router.

Hope this helps,
Rick Potter

[John Piwaron]

Rick,

That jogs a brain cell. I've seen that technique on Pat Warner's website. Except in his case he had those on the router table's top. Either way, I'd have to work out what to do about my feather boards. They were important helpers.

[Bill Huber]

First what is a horizontal panel raiser bit, I am not sure just what they are.

On the fence, I have the Jessem table and fence and made a micro/stop block for my table that works great for what you are doing. I think it could be adapted to be use on any table just by changing the way it mounts.

I set the stops to the finished cut and then with the micro adjuster move the fence forward to start making my cuts. Then I can just move it back as I need until it hits the stops again and that is the finial cut.

Here is the post on it, I have made some changes to it, I changed the lever to a knob and added the stop.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...micro+adjuster

This my site with all the images.
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/micro_adjuster

113568778.WEwq2r7a.Adjuster.jpg

[John Piwaron]

Bill,

You've made a really nice add on for your fence. Kudos to you! Since it's pushing and pulling on the end of the fence, is the amount of adjustment the same at both ends?

The horizontal bit is the red one. After measuring both on a comparator at work I realized they make the same profile except the vertical one puts a radius at the end the bevel runs out. Had I realized this at the time I was buying the horizontal, maybe I wouldn't have. I thought the horizontal was going to make a longer bevel. Wrong. But the horizontal did work better. Anti-kickback & even more important, those two small Quadra cut carbide bits. It did leave a smoother cut when all was said and done.

Horizontal Vertical.jpg

I have a shop made fence. In fact, the entire router table is shop made. This fence is located and locked down in 2 T tracks. Each one about 6" in from the ends of the table. They stop at a point where the face of the fence comes to the center of the opening for the bit. I posted pix of it all some time ago. I used a Micro Fence. It's mounted to a secondary "fence" that gets locked down when I want to use it. It pushes/pulls at the center of the main fence. I had my doubts, but after using it several times, it does what it's supposed to do. It'll move it 0.001" at a time. I'm under no illusion that that will actually happen or I'd be able to see that fine of a result in my work. I mean, there's always a bit of flex in the system or some other way to lose some tiny adjustment. But it does do the small adjustments I sometimes need or want.

micro adjuster.jpg micro adjuster fence.jpg

[David Kumm]

Generally a horizontal will give a better cut as the diameter of the cutter and the way the cutter hits the stock allows for a smoother surface. A vertical cutter is small diameter running very fast but cutting in a scalloping motion similar to a straight blade jointer knife. That effect means you need very rigid hold downs to eliminate vibration caused by the cutter. Similar to why a planer gives a better surface than a jointer. Just means you need to sand more. Dave

[Jim Andrew]

I have found that I can set my tablesaw blade at an angle, and take the rough cut with it, with the panels vertical so that I can make just one cut with the router making panels, rather than adjusting the router table several times.

[Peter Quinn]

I've used a vertical bit once at a class I took. My understanding is they are better for under powered routers, less steel to swing so they can maintain their speed. Still a multi pass approach required, but its easy to achieve. Use a real slow feed rate and a tall fence, I didn't get crazy with hold downs or back fences, just a foam push block. I've had to run a vertical cutter on a shaper just once too, for a custom profile that was just too large to to get a horizontal cutter made. Did it in a corrugated molding head, winds up being a 6" cutting circle so no scallop effect, but still not my favorite way to work. I too am impressed with the Freud quadra cut bits. I have a couple of panel raisers I've used freehand for counter top details.....hold on tight using those freehand. Says not to in the manual I'm sure, but the manual was written by lawyers, not wood workers. I like the idea of of hogging the wast first on the TS to ease the routers burden. I was setting up a panel raisers on the shaper today, reminiscing about doing it with routers. I take a full depth pass in one shot, comes out so smooth you barely have to sand, and the 7 1/2HP motor scarcely changes note as the wood passes through. So put me in the shaper camp, but its a lot of expense for an occasional door. At least thats what my wife keeps suggesting.

[John Piwaron]

Peter

I keep hearing good things about shapers.