Wanted to chew on my new PM-V11 chisels

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the input Chris. I had read a couple other threads in which there was considerable discussion regarding whether shorter, longer or regular bench chisels were better for fine dovetail work and I was surprised to find such a wide range of preferences. It is interesting that the better chisel manufactures seem to make mostly bench type chisels. I have not found near the selection in parring, firmer or even mortise chisels. I guess bench chisels are the most popular and the new growing interest in this type of hand tool has not convinced manufacturers to start producing the less popular chisel models yet. Seems like the Japanese specialized craftsmen/makers are about the only place one can find this level of quality in all types of chisels.

[Dave Beauchesne]

Guys: FWIW, I have the PM-V11 blade for my Veritas LA block plane - it was nice to sharpen, and held up very well during my Yew 2x4 project build - REAL WELL. On another note, I have a LN 3/16'' chisel in my herd, and it is the most often used size when I am doing dovetails. I might get the LV PM-V11 in that size in the future - - - Dave B

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for the input Chris. I had read a couple other threads in which there was considerable discussion regarding whether shorter, longer or regular bench chisels were better for fine dovetail work and I was surprised to find such a wide range of preferences. It is interesting that the better chisel manufactures seem to make mostly bench type chisels. I have not found near the selection in parring, firmer or even mortise chisels. I guess bench chisels are the most popular and the new growing interest in this type of hand tool has not convinced manufacturers to start producing the less popular chisel models yet. Seems like the Japanese specialized craftsmen/makers are about the only place one can find this level of quality in all types of chisels.

Yeah, for most things, including dovetails, I do pefer a standard size bench chisel. I have some of the LV 01s as well that I really like for dovetailing and really anything at the bench. A friend of mine has he LN bench chisels and I'm a big fan of those too. Both are very light an balanced but still have some length which I like. I had some butt chisel for a while and didn't like them nearly as much as I thought I would. They were nice for light chopping and such, but the second you turn them from a chopping to a paring task (like in HBDTs and hinge mortises where you switch between chopping and paring out waste) they always seemed to too short.

I've been using my dedicated parers fairly differently. They come out when I need to really dial in the fit of something thing that really needs to be flat and consistent, and where there isn't room for undercutting a such. I also like them for little chamfers and stuff in cases where I can't get a plane. Basically anywhere, where I need to remove just a smidge of material over some length. Once you're paring a longer length than say just shoulders around a dovetail or tenon (i use a bench chisel there) the longer delicate parer really helps to maintain control throughout the cut.

[Rob Lee]

I've been very tempted to get these chisels but haven't yet. I do see an opportunity for LV to fill a market niche that hasn't been filled in some time - good western style parers with this new steel. *Oh, Rob!

Hi Tony -

A couple of irons in the fire on that one....

The Veritas solution is in conceptual development right now.... but that means sometime in 2014.....

Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

Rob, make them look like these but with the wondersteel!

http://www.thebestthings.com/oldtool.../ch1305110.jpg

(I realize LV isn't really ever looking for my opinion, but pretty much the reason I use japanese parers is just because a lot of these older english parers and the new versions of them are on the soft side. The wondersteel would solve that problem. I realize that the bolster area would need a modern interpretation, but the rest of the setup - blade profile, weight, etc - is pretty much ideal. Plus, stanley didn't make them like this so there's no chance that something similar would show up in LN's listings in the future.)

[Hilton Ralphs]

Plus, stanley didn't make them like this so there's no chance that something similar would show up in LN's listings in the future.

That's funny!

[Chris Griggs]

Rob, make them look like these but with the wondersteel!

http://www.thebestthings.com/oldtool.../ch1305110.jpg

(I realize LV isn't really ever looking for my opinion, but pretty much the reason I use japanese parers is just because a lot of these older english parers and the new versions of them are on the soft side. The wondersteel would solve that problem. I realize that the bolster area would need a modern interpretation, but the rest of the setup - blade profile, weight, etc - is pretty much ideal. Plus, stanley didn't make them like this so there's no chance that something similar would show up in LN's listings in the future.)

Plus one!

That's funny!

Plus two!!

[Gary Muto]

Plus one!



Plus two!!

Plus 2 and
Plus 3!!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Plus four or wherever we're at now . . .

I have a beautiful 1/4" Marples paring chisel that manages to be too soft . . . except for this one spot in the middle that's too hard and chips out. It's basically useless, but I can't part with the damn thing.

[Rob Lee]

Rob, make them look like these but with the wondersteel!

http://www.thebestthings.com/oldtool.../ch1305110.jpg

(I realize LV isn't really ever looking for my opinion, but pretty much the reason I use japanese parers is just because a lot of these older english parers and the new versions of them are on the soft side. The wondersteel would solve that problem. I realize that the bolster area would need a modern interpretation, but the rest of the setup - blade profile, weight, etc - is pretty much ideal. Plus, stanley didn't make them like this so there's no chance that something similar would show up in LN's listings in the future.)

Hi David -

Hmm..... opinions like yours are exactly the type we're looking for, and listening too.... (time to get a bigger hat.... )

Parer's - when we do them, they'll be cranked neck, and not like the pattermakers paring chisels as you've shown. You will, however, see something along those lines from another maker soon.

Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

Well, if you guys come out with cranked neck parers, they'll probably be the only decent ones on the market (the buck manufactured parers are more like hardware store chisels in crank neck shape, which would be OK if the chisels were actualy flat, but they are manufactured with a belly - at least the couple I have).

Too bad no traditional parer in the V11, though!

[Rob Lee]

Too bad no traditional parer in the V11, though!

Hi David -

I didn't *exactly* say that.... - it's just that we'll be scorching the earth with someone else's versions first...

I'd like to eventually make parer's ... but the prices would be stunning (not in a good way) - and holding them flat would certainly be difficult. I believe we have concept models done though... just very far down the list from a production standpoint.


Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

I figured they'd be $100 per or a little north of that, and that the shape and flexibility would present issues with grinding them accurately. That's a hard sell if the steel is average or dumpy but in the spirit of having "good ones" and a parer that holds an edge much better than the vintage parers and comes flat is a great thing and worth the money.

Time will tell us, though, I'm sure!

[Chris Griggs]

It will be cool to see what you guys come up with.

I too would really love to see a long thin non-cranked parer in PMV11 from you guys, but given the cost of the V11 I can definitely see it being too expensive to be easily marketable especially, considering that paring chisels are much more of a niche market than standard bench chisels (though I bet you'd still have a lot of buyers). Also, keep in mind that folks don't need to buy them in sets. 2-3 parers is good for most I bet, so if they're not too insanely expensive at the individual level they might still be a good bet.

If the concern is stepping on the other makers toes...just ditch the octagonal handle. The long thin blade is the important part, I'm sure you can find a lovely less traditional looking alternative for the rest.

Seriously Rob, the market is dying for good thin bladed western parers, and if you make them out of PMV11 I really think you'll be making some of the finest chisels ever produced...its simply fantastic stuff at 25 degrees.

(all that said i know you all know what you're doing and I'm sure whatever you come up with will be very nice)

[Rob Lee]

(snip)
Time will tell us, though, I'm sure!

Yeah.... eventually, our plan is to make everything......

Cheers -

Rob