Disappointed with Grobet USA Files

[Tony Shea]

I have been noticing of late that the smaller Grobret files, even swiss made, have had that weird hourglass shape to them. I absolutely hate this shape and find it makes filing really awkward. I have been very disappointed with the Grobets of late and would rather use the Nicholson if nothing else for their shape. Granted they do not last all that long but for a sharpening teeth that are in already good shape I find I prefer these of late. I am by no means vouching for these files as they are also terrible, just a little less terrible as far as the shape of the file is concerned. I have yet to use Bahco files as they are not that easy to get unless buying a charge of them, which I probably should just do.

I really respect what you are trying to do Brett and will support it whole heartily. I am sick of the file situation being at the point where they are unusable. If I pay $5 to $7 for one file I expect the file to come out of the box and be usable. Especially when you get down in the real small sizes it becomes a complete crap shoot whether or not the file needs to be thrown out or make an attempt to put it to a saw. And these seem to be the priciest files yet in the worst shape. What the hell happened?

[David Weaver]

I burned through a nicholson file this weekend touching up a saw. For no reason than that I already have it. Their blanks aren't quite as good as they used to be but the files are OK as long as the saw isn't too hard. They are a better option than at least half of the grobet USA (india) files that I got last go-around.

I saw Stu mention elsewhere that he has access to really good taper saw files from asia (I don't know if they're japan), but he's never shared any details with me about them. If there was appropriate demand, maybe he could start stocking them.

[Brett Gregory]

I have been noticing of late that the smaller Grobret files, even swiss made, have had that weird hourglass shape to them. I absolutely hate this shape and find it makes filing really awkward. I have been very disappointed with the Grobets of late and would rather use the Nicholson if nothing else for their shape. Granted they do not last all that long but for a sharpening teeth that are in already good shape I find I prefer these of late. I am by no means vouching for these files as they are also terrible, just a little less terrible as far as the shape of the file is concerned. I have yet to use Bahco files as they are not that easy to get unless buying a charge of them, which I probably should just do.

I really respect what you are trying to do Brett and will support it whole heartily. I am sick of the file situation being at the point where they are unusable. If I pay $5 to $7 for one file I expect the file to come out of the box and be usable. Especially when you get down in the real small sizes it becomes a complete crap shoot whether or not the file needs to be thrown out or make an attempt to put it to a saw. And these seem to be the priciest files yet in the worst shape. What the hell happened?

Thanks Tony. Just to be clear, there are NO saw files made in Switzerland any more. Note that the Grobets say "Swiss" not "Swiss Made".

Furthermore, even if they did say "Made" there's a loophole that allows that: wherever the biggest value-add in the process is done is where they are allowed to state that they were made. Considering that, just putting them in packaging in Switzerland would cost more than producing the whole thing in India. Pardon my cynicism. but....

Cheers
Brett

[Brett Gregory]

I saw Stu mention elsewhere that he has access to really good taper saw files from asia (I don't know if they're japan), but he's never shared any details with me about them. If there was appropriate demand, maybe he could start stocking them.

In fact have found them on a website in Japan. I emailed them but got no response. Schtoo was going to give them a tickle up for me, but no news there either.

I have no doubt that they would be an excellent file, but I have serious concerns about the taper, and I have to remember that there are many experts who really want a proper taper back. This isn't about satisfying one part of the market, but rather all of the market.

However, even if the files are perfect, they may still be an overwhelming problem in dealing with them, if some of their English translations on their website are anything to go by. Here is how they describe the use of a file:
"Conventionally, as the tip of the blade is processed by electrolytic polishing (PAT) and the sharp blade of the knife-like material is processed in advance, the concave part bosom is deep and suitable for the material that is easy to cause clog like stiffening plastic, bakelite, wood and other light metals."
"It the industry first, we make both ends type file surface, made easy to guarantee the balance of suffering."

Ahhh...say what?

I don't know about you, but I find the idea of a concave bosom hideously unsatisfying. Whole or part. And as for any resultant stiffening - I very much doubt it. Plastic or otherwise.

You begin to understand why I am loathe to approach them if their range of files actually needs to be modified slightly (tapers).

If you have a look at post #52 where the survey results are it will indicate the taper/non-taper camps (which are evenly split), and underneath that is the list of people who completed the survey - all very experienced and respected saw filers (although you won't know some of them).

[David Kuzdrall]

So, for someone wanting to learn sharpening what is a good choice to start with given the quality issues and availability issues with some of these brands?

[Brett Gregory]

So, for someone wanting to learn sharpening what is a good choice to start with given the quality issues and availability issues with some of these brands?

Either Bahco, who have a reasonable range of sizes (but no xxSlims), of the Saw File on the Glen Drake Website, which is not tapered at all (deliberately) but is starting to turn a few heads away from tapers (such as Matt Cianci). Only one size available which is equivalent to a 5" xxSlim. I'll have a lot more feedback on it in a couple of weeks when the exhaustive testing round of 26 different files is finished by the three testers.

[David Kuzdrall]

Either Bahco, who have a reasonable range of sizes (but no xxSlims), of the Saw File on the Glen Drake Website, which is not tapered at all (deliberately) but is starting to turn a few heads away from tapers (such as Matt Cianci). Only one size available which is equivalent to a 5" xxSlim. I'll have a lot more feedback on it in a couple of weeks when the exhaustive testing round of 26 different files is finished by the three testers.

i obviously need to do more reading on the topic but I will be practicing on a 14ppi crosscut backsaw but planning to sharpen a 16ppi dovetail saw and a 14ppi dovetail saw.

thx

[Brett Gregory]

i obviously need to do more reading on the topic but I will be practicing on a 14ppi crosscut backsaw but planning to sharpen a 16ppi dovetail saw and a 14ppi dovetail saw.

thx

In that case I would definitely start with the file from Glen Drake (no confusion on the site - there's only one saw file)

[Brett Gregory]

The testing results of 23 different files by 3 testers of different perspectives are in, and I have collated them.

I have to write some preamble notes, take quite a lot of photos and then they will be ready to publish in a day or two (fair bit of Photoshop work to do as well - combining before/after images, teeth that were cut yadda yadda).

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I didn't get one, but I happened to be looking at some Stanley-branded made-in-China triangular and mill files while at the hardware store picking up leaf bags, and the grinding and teeth at least *looked* really good in the package. (Nothing like the rough mess I've seen on some files.) No idea about use, but they looked real good!

Looking forward to seeing your completed information, Brett!

[Kim Malmberg]

Bahco files are decent. I have experience of using American made Nicholson, Heller, Swedish made Öberg and Sandvik as well as Finnish made Viiala files, and out of all of these the Öberg files have proven to be the very best. But those aren't to be found anymore. So if you have a budget to keep and you dislike the Simonds and Nicholson's I'd say, buy the Bahco files. They're made in Portugal nowadays but they are made with the Öberg pattern (as Sandvik bought Öberg and then sold out the tool division to Bahco) and they're better than the modern Nicholsons.

[george wilson]

One of these days I am going to take those miserable Mexico Nicholson that Toolfetch sent me and put them in a sealed container with aquarium charcoal and case harden them in my electric furnace. Then,I can see of the teeth are still o.k., and the hardness has been restored. I'm pretty sure if The teeth are kept from the air,they will be o.k.. Aquarium charcoal is the best. Perhaps because it is activated,and has millions of tiny holes in it to secrete carbon when hot.

[Tony Zaffuto]

One of these days I am going to take those miserable Mexico Nicholson that Toolfetch sent me and put them in a sealed container with aquarium charcoal and case harden them in my electric furnace. Then,I can see of the teeth are still o.k., and the hardness has been restored. I'm pretty sure if The teeth are kept from the air,they will be o.k.. Aquarium charcoal is the best. Perhaps because it is activated,and has millions of tiny holes in it to secrete carbon when hot.

More details as to how you would do this! Tool wrap around the files & charcoal? Temperatures? Any draw?

[David Weaver]

I'm curious, too, Tony. I figure if george tells the story, there are going to be people doing it if it works. I won't be one of them, but we are like trained monkeys more or less and I can imagine some folks won't be able to resist, and will be on the way to the pet store to get supplies.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm curious, too, Tony. I figure if george tells the story, there are going to be people doing it if it works. I won't be one of them, but we are like trained monkeys more or less and I can imagine some folks won't be able to resist, and will be on the way to the pet store to get supplies.

If I can get the details, I can do a batch in the heat treat furnace in my machine shop. I'll need guinea pigs to try them, though, as my saw sharpening skills are not sharp enough. I also have access to a production heat treat source.