Help with Veneer on a boat

[Mike Wiktorski]

Hello would like to apply veneer on a boat to make doors go from this: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp?ro=15&slim=quicknull&r=2444209&cu rrency=USD&checked_boats=2444209&rs=yachtworld.com &boat_id=2444209&back=/core/boats/1990/Jersey-Convertible-2444209/Huntington-Beach/CA/United-States&boat_id=2444209&noOfPic=1 picture number 34 to this: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp?ro=4&slim=quicknull&r=2550527&cur rency=USD&checked_boats=2550527&rs=yachtworld.com& boat_id=2550527&back=/core/boats/1993/Jersey-47-Convertible-Sportfisherman-2550527/Norwalk/CT/United-States&boat_id=2550527 picture number 3 I would be basically putting teak on painted fiberglass or gel coat, exposed to temperature changes in the helm area but not really water. want to cover in teak, but want to know if anyone has any advice out there. it is as you can see a very small area, about 6-8 sq ft between all 4 doors, I just want to change the look without tearing the frames out and putting in pre-hung doors or new doors. need advice on if one thinks it can be done, backed or non backed veneer, tools and glue type needed. after installed it will be given many coats of marine varnish. I am in CAL so the temps up there will never get below 40. I have a lot of wood working experience (own a stubby lathe) but no veneer experience. was told to post on here by Joe at Veneer supplies - thanks in advance for any advice given. Mike

[Julie Moriarty]

Personally, I would make new doors from solid teak. When you start to get into veneering on fiberglass in a marine environment, you had better know what you're doing or it won't be long before the veneer delaminates. The gel coat, epoxy and veneer may not make for a happy marriage. I've made solid wood pieces for sailboats and they all performed well. Veneers I leave to the professionals.

If you're hell-bent on doing the veneer, check out West Systems for information on working with fiberglass and marine epoxy. Also check out Jamestown Distributors and ask around there.

[Sam Murdoch]

So there is a wood frame and you just want to veneer the center panel? This is for you or for a client? Answers pending...

[Mike Wiktorski]

yes wood around the border of the door and it is my boat - thanks

[Sam Murdoch]

In that case I would not hesitate to suggest using a paper backed teak veneer as your door panel. Scuff the finish on the fiberglas panel and apply a thin even coat of epoxy to the panel then set the venneer. Roll it in evenly and ideally clamp between a few cauls or a solid plywood piece that has been sealed with wax or similar coating so that it does not stick to the veneer. Do a dry run of course. Also, understand that this is an experiment . I'm pretty confident that this will work very well especially when finished properly with a marine clear coat. It would make the job easier and less exacting if you planned to apply a teak 1/4 round or some other simple profile trim around the perimeter of the inside edge of the door frame to cover the veneer edges.

My preference would be to glue up 2" +/- (equally sized for the width of the panel) strips of 3/8" to 5/16" thick solid teak. This would be a more certain and long lasting treatment. You could screw from the back of the panel to secure the strips but epoxy and clamps would do a good job without the screws. I would suggest that you try to keep the strips as thick as possible because they will lay up better. 1/4" thin wood can be pretty hard to tame. A panel made up of solid wood can be refinished in later years and will generally hold up better than a veneer. I would be concerned about the veneer buckling or developing bubbles over time (that explains my "experiment" comment).

Also using solid wood you could apply it with 3M 5200 Marine sealant caulk and avoid using epoxy all together. The caulk can be spread thinly with a putty knife and you will have nearly instant tack with less mess than using epoxy and no down side as it adheres wood to fiberglass very well and will stay elastic to allow for wood movement.

[Bob Grier]

Fiberglass has high coefficient of thermal expansion so will expand and contract quite a bit as temperature changes. I know very little about veneer but if the wood frame is staying together and it is permanently (not floating) attached to the fiberglass doors, then maybe the veneer will stay in place and not split or buckle. Changes in humidity may also be significant The frame boards are narrow enough that it probably would not be significant in them but it may be significant to the veneer. I lived on a boat for 5 years cruising Canada to southern Mexico. Thermal expansion of fiberglass wood expansion contraction due to humidity changes were quite impressive. Good quality caulking between dissimilar materials helped quite a bit. I would be nervous about attaching wood directly to fiberglass on a boat unless provisions are made for them to expand contract at different rates. Imagine changing from a dry hot environment to a cold damp one. The fiberglass will go one way and the wood the other.

[Mike Wiktorski]

Sam thank you for the reply. I like both ideas, the depth of the fiberglass to the face of the border is only 5/16 to maybe 3/8 with a rounded inner edge so I am not sure of two things: first if this would look right with the inside strips the same height as the border, or even if I used 1/4" it would be so close it would not look inset.. and secondly how I would handle the look of the inside edge of the border, hopefully these two comments make sense. I use the 5200 and did not even think of that, that stuff will hold anything and can even be used and sets under water, amazing glue. Julie I also appreciate your reply.

[Mike Wiktorski]

I believe it is a floating piece of fiberglass in the doors, very informative comments, I would have never thought that about fiberglass. hmm...it certainly goes from those two extremes in that part of the boat. this is a great stumper of a subject.

[Sam Murdoch]

this is a great stumper of a subject.

But worth an experiment ? You'll find out in one season if you have success.

With your more detailed description I think I would try veneer and leave an 1/8" gap around the perimeter covered with a little trim. Don't use a fast cure hardener for the epoxy. If you work with 5200 you know it can seem to take forever to dry, especially in the cold damp spring here in Maine. That could be a downside to using it but I agree, in any case, that you don't really have the room for the thickness of solid wood strips.

[Mike Wiktorski]

I'm game. You still thinking epoxy? Is there a flexible epoxy? Might the varnish crack? Not sure I can find that small of 1/4 round, but will look.

[Sam Murdoch]

And in the middle of the night when I should have been sleeping I had a few more thoughts .

1) You could make a solid wood panel that would look fine in relationship to the wood frame by making a raised panel. The hips could terminate with 1/4" thick flats which would relate well to the frame. Of course this would be a simulated raised panel and might look a little off to the trained eye but could be very effective. This could be applied with 5200. I would leave an equal reveal - maybe 3/32" to the door frame and fill that gap with a clean bead of colored silicone caulk (or the tan 5200 is a pretty good match to teak).

2) A more radical idea - many many years ago I covered the aluminum frames of a commercial interior window wall (22' tall x 20+' wide) with a peel & stick veneer. These window frames were subjected to all manner of hot and cold and damp - talk about a "high coefficient of thermal expansion". There was lots of condensation in the winter as the owners used heavy multi layered thermal curtains that were thermostatically controlled. The veneer was only finished with Watco Oil. 20 years later this stuff had to be sanded off. It never peeled or delaminated just looked pitiful after years of being bleached by the sun.

Anyway - all this to say that if you could find some teak peel and stick it would be worth a try. Sand the fiberglass panel and wash it clean then apply a prefitted piece with a roller to get even pressure. The secret to success (however you veneer) would be finishing with multiple coats of a good marine varnish - Interlux, Epiphanes, or Petit.

In any case have fun with it. I have no experience with what you are trying to do. Only thinking out loud. Julie may have given you the best advice - "Personally, I would make new doors from solid teak".