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Thread: Sanding Swirls with festool ETS 150

  1. #31
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    No kidding. That's why he recommends making the marks so you can see if you are doing it.


  2. But as written, your posting was telling people that they should try to stop the rotation.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    I think the Creek has got you covered: - Let the sander do the work, you don't need any pressure beyond the unit's weight. - Move about an inch per second, fast movement creates swirls as the desired scratch-pattern is being overridden by your travel speed. - Move up through the grits from the coarsest required to start the job through each grit till the scratch-pattern from the previous grit is gone. - Clean off the surface between grits to assure you aren't dragging an errant piece of coarser grit along with your next finer grit level. - Low vac suction, I have an adjustable collar on mine that "vents" the suction to adjust it down.
    Nail on the head!!! I've the RS-2E, ETS-125, DTS-125, DX-93, and the RO-150. Everyone of them will give NASTY swirl marks if you love too fast. IMHO, this is biggest culprit to swirls. I had changed everything else mentioned to no avail. Once I slowed my hand to about 1"-2" per second the marks were gone. That simple. Now having the patience to keep that rate is another story.

    Side issue... I recently a wired the RO-150. What a beast!!! Anyway, I may be crazy, but I think this sander, in Rotex mode, may require a faster rare of movement with your hand.

    Anyone have a similar experience?
    Thanx,

    shotgunn

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    More is DEFINITELY more!!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
    But as written, your posting was telling people that they should try to stop the rotation.
    Not the way I read it. I took it like he said the rep demonstrated what happens when you apply too much pressure. As in, what not to do.
    Thanx,

    shotgunn

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    More is DEFINITELY more!!!

  5. #35
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    I found this old link as I have been trying to re-learn how to sand with a new Festool ETS EC 150/3 EQ. I was trying to finish a hickory project and kept getting swirls no matter what I did. I even purchased a RTS 400 EQ thinking it would be more of a straight line sander. Both had issues big time for me. After refinishing a tabletop 4 times going from 120, 150, and 180 grit. Low suction, high speed, whatever gave me swirls. I finally gave up and went to my old PC 333 and Makita pad sander and guess what? No swirls. This wasn't my first Festool purchase, but I am still disappointed. I did return them. Several comments to improve were to sand up through 320 to get rid of swirl marks. At 320 the hickory would be so smooth that stain would not absorb!
    Mike Kelly
    _________
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  6. #36
    Mike,I am not familiar with the Festool model numbers. But I've found that even the people who order for commercial shops are sometimes not aware that orbital sanders are available in different orbit sizes. Maybe the sander has the large orbit.

  7. #37
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    I have a 150/3 and use it quite a bit as it is my go-to sander for just about everything. I have never had any swirl problems that I'm aware of so I can't really imagine what the heck is going on with your sander(s). It is interesting that you're having problems with both sanders so I'm leaning towards your technique. Now ROS do naturally cause swirls but that is why you keep going up in grits to get rid of the previous grits swirls. For maple, I stop at 180 and all is well. Sometimes I stop at 120 and I'm still fine. I assume you are using the Rubin sandpaper?

    Do you have any pictures that could show us the swirls, Mike?
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  8. #38
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    There's more to it than working through the grits. You must also clean the work piece and pad to prevent one grit from contaminating the other. I always thoroughly blow off and wipe down the piece between grits. I have the 150/3 ETS and a full vacuum, non-VS Fein T3. I do not get any swirl marks.
    Please help support the Creek.


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  9. #39
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    I ended up switching from Festool abrasives to Indasa. Much cheaper and ended up with what I felt was a much better finish.

  10. #40
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    3 years after my earlier posts, and I still don't get swirl marks with my ETS 150/3. I'm thinking it must be technique.

    I learned sanding from first learning how to polish Ferraris and Lamborghinis, without having the owners kill me by damaging their soft paint jobs. Great motivation to learn good technique with a rotary sander. Much of that carries over to easier to use ROS.

    I'm still thinking too much pressure and too much vacuum.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  11. #41
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    Every time I thought there weren't swirl marks, there were. I can't imagine me using a lighter touch or a slower movement. Darker stains tend to magnify the swirles.

    I typically had to finish by hand with a sanding block.

  12. #42
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    DSCN1281 (2304 x 1728).jpg
    Here is what happened no matter what I did.
    The orbit is 3mm. Vacuum was at minimum and pressure just enough to guide sander.
    Last edited by Mike Kelly; 08-04-2016 at 8:56 PM.
    Mike Kelly
    _________
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    Small Homemade CNC
    Sherline CNC Mill
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    AutoCAD
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  13. #43
    Have not read all replies here. But the first thing I would try is faster movement of sander.

  14. #44
    In fact the first thing I would try is slower and lighter movement of the sander.

    All swirls for me come from moving too fast and hard. It's worse if you have to use rough grits to do any leveling. Prepping well so you can start at 120 or 150 helps.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
    DSCN1281 (2304 x 1728).jpg
    Here is what happened no matter what I did.
    The orbit is 3mm. Vacuum was at minimum and pressure just enough to guide sander.
    Mike, on the right side of the pic I can see shadows of the outside of the sanding pad, but only the top of the circle. That could happen if the sander was weighted to one side rather than applying uniform vertical pressure. Did you start the sander in the air and drop it on the board, or start it while it was in contact with the board?

    The smaller (orbital) circular scratches in the middle of the photo look very deep, as though there was some loose abrasive 'sharp crap' on either the board or paper when you started sanding. I don't think you would get that kind of 'very localized pattern' due to a sander or technique defect. As mentioned previously, did you try cleaning the board, pad and sandpaper before starting sanding? Have you tried rubbing your hand over the sandpaper to see if the surface feels irregular? Maybe you got a bad batch of paper, or some dirt in the paper storage. Are you using Festool paper?

    If you bought the sander from a brick-and-mortar store, maybe you can take it back, along with your bad sample board and a fresh board and chat with the folks, try a different sander, or return the sander if you are in the 30 day window.
    Mark McFarlane

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