Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 43

Thread: Differences in MIG,TIG and Flux welders - contemplating learning to weld

  1. #1

    Differences in MIG,TIG and Flux welders - contemplating learning to weld

    Okay......I am a total newbie in relation to welding......I have had several times in the last couple of years that I wished I knew how to weld, and even came close to purchasing a welder and shield...........resisted because of my lack of knowledge.

    Could someone on this forum explain the differences in TIG, MIG and Flux wire welding and when they are used? Also the benefits of each kind?

    Much appreciation!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    832
    TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) Similar to gas (Oxy Acetylene) in operation, you hold the torch in one hand and filler if needed in the other. Foot pedal controls amperage. Very versatile, but slow, makes a nice weld. Arc is sheilded by a gas envelope, problem with winds. Good for Most metals and more suited to thin material. Often the Tig also provides a stick welder so you can get double duty.

    MIG (Metal Inert Gas) uses the filler wire as the electrode, pull the trigger, point and shoot. Gas is used to shield the arc, same problem with wind. Good for steel, can do Alum but usually need a spool gun because the wire is hard to push down the hose. Very easy to learn.

    Flux Core - Same as MIG except that the wire hollow and filled with a flux to shield the arc, no gas, good for windy conditions. Basically stick welding with endless rod.

    SticK Welder - Electrode is a filler rod coated in a flux material. Good for thicker material, electrode is always hot, you touch the material, you start welding

  3. #3
    Is stick welding fairly easy to learn? Is it for most metals.......steel tube, angle iron, bolts........fabrication?
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    832
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Is stick welding fairly easy to learn? Is it for most metals.......steel tube, angle iron, bolts........fabrication?
    Pretty easy, easier with the new auto darkening helmets. The welding rod determines what metal you are welding (Steel, Stainless, Cast Iron) The only real difficulty is thin material <1/8".

    Easy to Hard
    MIG - Flux core
    MIG
    Stick
    TIG

    Cheap to Expensive
    Stick
    MIG Flux core
    MIG
    TIG

    Flexibility
    TIG
    STICK
    MIG
    MIG Flux core

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    110
    I've done all of the methods above either through classes at the community college or at home. I own a DC Tig machine, MIG, and oxy/acy torches. I enjoy the tig welding the best. It is slower, but the welds turn out very nice. If I did it again, I would buy a high end AC/DC tig machine and a plasma cutter and be done with it.

  6. #6
    Roger,
    I have about 9 years of welding experience from being in the Air Force. I have done Oxy-Acetylene, ARC, MIG and TIG.

    If you are wanting to learn the basics and I would start off with a MIG set-up and use Flux-Cored wire. By using the flux core you avoid having to purchase gas. When welding steel with a MIG gun you need to use either Argon or Argon/Carbon Dioxide mix to shield the weld. If you want to weld Aluminum you need to run pure Argon.

    TIG is by far the cleanest weld that you can do. If you learn to TIG you will have to have a supply of Argon Gas to shield the weld and the electrode.

    These are just my thoughts.

    Respectively,
    Nathan
    Retired Veteran

    After Ten years of making things, never would have known how much it got in my Blood. Till I could cannot make things any more.

    -Me

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    761
    Even if you don't end up buying a Miller machine, they have an excellent explanation for starting out: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-yourselfers--

    Over the years I've done oxy-acetylene, stick, flux core, MIG, and TIG. My machines right now are a 250amp MIG, 250amp TIG (which also can be set up for stick), and an 80amp plasma cutter.

    Chuck provides some good lists to explain how they relate. I'd debate where MIG and flux core stand in relation to each other, though. Adding the shielding gas to a MIG welder is an added cost, but then you don't have to worry about the slag that the flux forms - both for cleaning it off the finished weld as well as making sure it doesn't get included into the weld if you go over it accidentally.

    The first question is what do you plan to weld? You're not going to get very far trying to weld sheet metal with stick. Likewise, a 110V MIG is going to take many, many passes and some skill if you're trying to weld thick brackets and structural items. TIG can have a similar drawback. I welded up a new bucket for my Bobcat the other year. TIG would have taken forever to weld all the seams. Even stick would have required multiple electrodes to finish even one seam. With the MIG I could just start welding and not stop until I reached the end of the seam.

    Oxy-acetylene can be very versatile - like TIG, it only provides the heat source and you have to use a separate filler rod. But people can be nervous having a big cylinder of acetylene around the house. The other setups are inert when you're not using them, so there is a certain level of safety to them.

  8. #8
    Is the purpose of the gas to eliminate slag? I still have some gaps in my understanding about what each setup is and why gas is introduced......also, I have seen welders for sale and stick [rods?] which operate off the welding wire clamp.............my impression was that with a welding rod and a welder that produces current that metals could be put together.........again, I have zero knowledge here, but have the desire to learn some and need help knowing where to get started.

    Likely, my efforts will be mostly welding things like angle iron, steel plate and perhaps bolts......general fabrication is what I call these.......thanks everyone for your time on this.....pardon my lack of understanding, but any clarification will be much appreciated..........thanks very much!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    north, OR
    Posts
    1,160
    I don't think the ease of use order can be understate for noobs (of which I am firmly in the land of). Even I can get things to stick together pretty good with a MIG welder (not pretty, but hey). I can sort of make it work with a stick welder after running through a rod or three of practice beads and I sure wouldn't buy a TIG without taking some more classes or working with someone to learn better more first.

    Any of these can weld steel (with varying ease of use).

    In theory you can weld aluminum with a stick welder (I've seen it done... with sprinkler pipe no less, was in awe at the skill required) but it takes a magical hand.

    If you want to do stainless you're practically down to TIG or MIG+gas and are probably better off getting someone else to do it cause stainless is a pita to weld (yeah I've seen some flux core stainless for MIG, but...).

    I have a 110v Hobart Handler 140 MIG and can easily weld up to 1/4" in mild steel with it (Miller at least has a similar class of machine). Past that I'd take the pieces down to my buddies shop and borrow his stick (or more likely beg him to weld it for me ).

    With flux core on the MIG its really dead simple but I do get a fair bit of splatter (less if I've been practicing ) compared to using it with gas.

    If there is a college or High school near you that offers classes they're well worth your time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,568
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Is the purpose of the gas to eliminate slag?!
    Roger, I've been welding for over 30 years. To answer your question, the purpose of gas - or flux (either in the MIG wire or on the outside of the arc welding rod), is to shield the electric arc from oxygen, and thus proving a greater degree of control to the arc.

    Lots of good advice has been offered thus far by other members. Most new welders find the techniques associated with MIG welding to be the easiest to learn, and TIG and stick welding to be more difficult. When welding, you basically have two concerns. First, the strength of the weld, and second the aesthetic appearance. In many instances, a good looking weld is a strong weld; however a good welder will understand the importance of weld penetration and how to determine if their welds are sound.

    A 120V MIG welder is usually the best starting point and is suitable for sheet metal and light guage steel (such as 1/8" or 3/16" thick). You can successfully use a small MIG on thicker metal if you pre-heat the metal with a torch (such as oxy-acytelene). Beyond 3/16", usually a 240VAC MIG is the best option.

    Stick welding is usually done with a 240VAC welder. Better welders will offer both AC and DC welding. Many pro's use DC reverse polarity for their stick welding, as when coupled with the proper rod can result in deeper weld penetration.

    Depending upon the thickness that you want to weld, if I were you I would start off with either a 120V or 240V MIG, and take some classes at a local community college. I would also learn to weld and braze with oxy-acytelene, as this will add a lot of versatility to what you can do. This combination will provide you with the most flexibility and allow you to develop your skill set, before moving into more expensive equipment. Oxy-acytelene torches will also all you to cut thick metal without the expense of a plasma torch.

    A 120V MIG and an Oxy-acytelene setup can be picked up for about 1K. A good AC/DC sticker welder will set you back around $500.00, give or take.

    When you move into 240VAC MIG, you're up in the $1,500 - $2,500 range. TIG welders will start closer to 3K and up. If you plan to weld aluminum, you will need a high frequency generator with your TIG welder, and a water cooled torch is a good idea too.
    Last edited by Scott T Smith; 03-24-2013 at 3:27 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    761
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Is the purpose of the gas to eliminate slag? I still have some gaps in my understanding about what each setup is and why gas is introduced......
    With any welding method, you have to shield the molten weld from oxygen. So you either use a shielding gas (MIG and TIG) or a flux (flux core, stick, or oxy-acetylene) that burns off creating both (essentially) a shielding gas bubble around the weld as well as slag over the weld to keep the oxygen out. The disadvantage of the flux is that you have to chip it off. For oxy-acetylene welding you dip the heated filler rod in flux. For stick welding the flux is bonded to the exterior of the electrode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    also, I have seen welders for sale and stick [rods?] which operate off the welding wire clamp.............my impression was that with a welding rod and a welder that produces current that metals could be put together.........
    I'm not exactly sure of what you are asking here. For stick welding, you have a ground clamp that you attach to the object you're welding (flux core, MIG, and TIG also have a ground clamp). You then insert an electrode (rod or stick) into the electrode holder. The electric arc melts the tip of the electrode as well as heats the workpiece to form the weld. This is basically the same process with flux core and MIG except rather than have a stick of some length, you have a continuous wire that is the electrode. And the difference between flux core and MIG is that you either have a wire with a flux core down the middle or you use a separate shielding gas to provide the protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Likely, my efforts will be mostly welding things like angle iron, steel plate and perhaps bolts......general fabrication is what I call these.......thanks everyone for your time on this.....pardon my lack of understanding, but any clarification will be much appreciated..........thanks very much!
    You could likely get away with either a flux core or stick machine to start out depending on how "heavy" the pieces are that you're working with. Either would be relatively inexpensive compared to other machines.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    761
    Again, go back and read the Miller welding link that I provided earlier. It will give you a pretty good understanding of the different methods and you'll be able to better ask questions once you understand the basics.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,568
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bank View Post
    With any welding method, you have to shield the molten weld from oxygen. For oxy-acetylene welding you dip the heated filler rod in flux.
    Thomas, the Miller welding link that your provided is an excellent resource; however your statement is not completely correcct.

    Oxy-acytelene welding that uses a steel filler rod does not require flux or shielding. Prior to the widespread use of MIG welders, oxy-acytelene steel rod welding was the common method of welding vehicle exhaust systems. The rods were not flux coated, nor was flux used in the welding process.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    3,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    Thomas, the Miller welding link that your provided is an excellent resource; however your statement is not completely correcct.

    Oxy-acytelene welding that uses a steel filler rod does not require flux or shielding. Prior to the widespread use of MIG welders, oxy-acytelene steel rod welding was the common method of welding vehicle exhaust systems. The rods were not flux coated, nor was flux used in the welding process.
    If Thomas are braze -welding then he can use flux, the use of flux are to keep oxygen away from the weld on the steel but this are impossible when we are welding with a oxygen-ace torch

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    761
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    Oxy-acytelene welding that uses a steel filler rod does not require flux or shielding.
    My apologies. It has been a few decades since I did anything with oxy-acetylene. As Ray inferred, I was thinking of brazing with dipping the welding rod in the flux crystals. Could picture using the torch and dipping my rod in the old coffee can of flux - but got mixed up on what I was actually doing.
    Last edited by Thomas Bank; 03-24-2013 at 10:01 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •