Build this Fence

[Charles Brown]

I have been tasked by a family member to build a privacy fence that looks similar to the attached picture. I've installed a few fences but nothing quite this elaborate. Any thoughts or ideas on how to put this together?

I've really only done dog-eared and picket style fences before. This one is new to me. Place to look for connectors, etc.?

dsc_0962.jpg

[Ron Kellison]

I have a fence very much like that built from white cedar. Mine has lattice work at the top but otherwise is constructed the same way. Once the posts are set it simply a matter of getting the initial cross piece in place at top and bottom then nailing on the boards. The one caveat I would advise is to use ship-lapped or T&G vertical boards between the posts. Cedar shrinks quite a bit (even kiln dried) and even though I put the boards in tight when the fence was built 1/4" gaps developed between the boards within 3 months. So much for privacy! After receiving a noticeable degree of instruction from my management committee I pulled most of the vertical boards, renailed them tightly together and added another 4-5" board to each panel to make up for the shrinkage. Cedar seems to handle compression fairly well so when the wood expands in summer it didn't pop any nails. I could have saved myself a lot of time and grief if I had just milled a 3/8" shiplap joint on each board edge before I did the initial installation!

Ron

[Art Mulder]

Charles,

The photo is not terribly big, but by zooming in on the right end of it, it looks to me like the 2x boards are just toe-nailed into the 6x6 posts. So, no connectors?

Looks to me like 2x4's are attached to the posts, oriented so the 4" direction is up and down, and then fence boards nailed on. Then another 2x4 is probably on the other side to finish it off. Capped with a 2x6 layed on the flat. Then above that the process is repeated with the pickets.

(Note, I'm NOT a fence-building expert. That is just how I'm reading the photo, partly assuming that both sides of the fence look the same.)

[Harry Hagan]

Make sure you check the property's Deed of Restrictions or whatever other legal entity has decided what's permitted in the neighborhood. What your family member wants and what's permitted may be two different things. That fence would not be legal where we live.

[Dave Richards]

Maybe like this? It's just a quickie sketch so dimensions might not be correct.

[Erik Christensen]

looks to me like a design that would rot pretty quickly. every one of the top trim elements is a pathway for water to enter & collect in the interior. do some research on deck/porch railings that have a similar design - they go to inordinate lengths to keep water out and provide a drain path if it does get in. Might be OK in a desert climate but in GA I think you are spending a lot time to add a design elemet that will significantly shorten the lifespan of the fence.

[Charles Brown]

Dave, that was pretty close to what I was thinking. My thought, was to nail a 2x4 of PT to the 6x6 at the top / bottom of the 1x6 field and nail the flat boards to that. After in place, nail the chamfered bit to cover the nail holes.

[Dave Richards]

Charles,

Base only on the way I drew it, the problem areas I see are the tops of the spindles and the space between them. At least in my drawing there's no way for water to get out of the spaces. One thing that I thought of after drawing it is that you could put a shallow chamfer on the top of the horizontal rail above the wide boards. Leave the chamfered boards on either side of the spindles up a little bit so water can drain out underneath.

[Sam Murdoch]

Chamfer the tops of all the horizontals and keep the bottom rail off the ground at 2" to 3". Make all the posts hollow box posts that will sleeve over PT posts set into the ground or better yet galvanized post set into concrete tubes - then be certain that the bottom of the box post are also up off the ground 1" or better. Treat all the near ground surfaces - especially the end grains with several coats of 2 part epoxy. Saturate the end grain with one coat and saturate again with a 2nd coat for optimum protection. It will be pretty for years to come.

[Mike Ruggeri]

Just a couple of thoughts -

- when I have built fences like this I have used a "board on board" style on the bottom part. It gives a similar look but eliminates the expansion and contraction issues and allows you to use a 2x4 sandwiched in the middle of the face boards. This allows good nailing from the 2x4 into the posts and makes for a solid fence. If you are going to do a solid fence like in the pictures, my experience was that shrinkage was a bigger issue so I would put the boards close together at the beginning (we used to squeeze them with a clamp before nailing). I have also seen these types of fences built as ship lap but that is usually in fences coming from mills as it is too expensive on the typical build to go through that much work.
- I would build the fence in secitons - build the bottom part on the ground (on a table or piece of plywood is better as you can nail guide blocks to make a jig so you can position 2x4s in the same place for each section and put them together really quick) and then build the top part (also using a plywood jig with spacers) so spacing and straightness is good. Also you need to use a pneumatic nail gun or you will go nuts doing this by hand. I know fences are built by many after the posts are in, but to me this makes it more difficult.
- most of the fences I've like this use 4x4 posts. Not saying you can't use 6x6, but I would say it is not the norm (at least in NJ) as 6x6 is more money and heavier to move.
- when you put the "spindles" in, put the far left and far right ones so that they but up against the post. That will create another secure connection point to the post.
- I wouldn't worry about the drainage issues in the spindles as I bet there will be enough of a gap at the bottom of the top section to allow water to escape (again, cedar usually shrinks in my experience and will leave a gap). I did a fence somewhat like this for my sister almost 10 years ago and it is still fine (using cedar with PT posts).
- on install, I would set the first post, then dig the hole for the second post. Now you can take a bottom section of fence and attach it to the secured post (put something under the far end so it doesn't droop) and then put the second post up to the section. You will then fill the second hole with the section tacked to both posts. This takes all the guess work out of distance between posts and ensures a tight fit of the section.

By no way am I an expert, but do have some experience (worked for a fence company for 5 summers during high school and college). Good luck.

Mike

[Joe Angrisani]

How are you guys attaching the 2x4 "rails" to the posts?

[Mike Ruggeri]

Joe - I would typically use long screws from different angles. This approach is not ideal but usually if you design the fence right and the posts are strong, it will be good.

When I worked for the fence company we had a better approach. We would often round the ends of the rails (had a machine that was like a pencil sharpener for 2x4's) to make a dowel like end (probably 2 inches long). We also had a multi-head drill table with big drill bits in it that would bore corresponding holes in the 4x4 posts. This would make for a strong fence. Many times we would prep the rails and posts for DIY guys that were just buying the materials (makes DIY easier when you have the rails already rounded and posts drilled).


Mike

[Joe Angrisani]

Joe - I would typically use long screws from different angles. This approach is not ideal but usually if you design the fence right and the posts are strong, it will be good.....

It seems no matter how strong the posts are, toe-screwing the rails won't be enough. The whole rest of the fence's integrity goes back to a few screws on butt joints?? Anyone else?