HELP choosing wood species for a "newbie" kitchen...

[Mark Kay]

Hi, first let me say, I haven't worked much with wood in many years (35? since my teens) so consider myself a self- and internet-taught newbie and had to purchase tools like a decent table saw, routers, router table, woodworking workbench, Kreg master kit, compressor, etc. I don't have a garage or basement to work in so am using one of the living rooms to set up a temporary shop. I don't have a wife or kids to tell me I CAN'T do that, (it's just me and the dog) so I moved most of the things out to make room for the tools.

I'm tackling my own kitchen, which is pretty small, but will end up stuffed to the gills with things like 2 pantries surrounding the fridge, a plate rack over a microwave over the range, many pullouts & drawers, etc, all designed around a quartz Kindred KGCRA/8 corner sink that will overlay an adjoining drawer base cabinet. I'm going with this sink because of its looks & features, plus it frees up enough counter space to give me a continuous 5ft+ of countertop in front of a large 54" wide window looking nowhere (at a vacant house just 8 feet away.)

The kitchen will be a traditional faceframe type and is about 10x11ft but the chimney protrudes about 18x18 inches at one corner, and a doorway on the adjacent wall gives me little room for much more than the gas range and a 9 or 12''w base next to it. I have different options around the chimney, one being to cover it with a diagonal cabinet that would give about 6-8 inches on each side of the chimney to store things like spices or utensils.

I started making some faceframes from hard maple as well as a 6-inch wide base cab with 5 openings like for wine bottles... you may have seen them in some cabinet sites--they cost a fortune to buy compared to standard base cabs, so I tackled it first.

I've been designing it on & off for a few years now, I keep changing things in the software plan trying to make the best use of the space, as well as see what different species may look like. Because the sink is what Kindred calls graphite, a dark charcoal color, I think the countertops would need to be similar in color, so think the wood would need to be a light or medium color so the room doesn't get too dark. The house was built in the 1920-1940's range and the woodwork looks like ash grain with orange shellac. Some of the doors look dark like mahogany but there are no doors entering the kitchen, they've been removed many years ago. I pulled up the linoleum and the hardwood floors look like ash or oak.

So what wood would some suggest for this project? The layout will be changed significantly so not sure if I need to match existing woods or not-- but do I need to stay light because the counters will be almost black? There will be very little areas of the walls exposed anymore, but the thinking right now is the backsplash will be orange or terra cotta subway tile.

I am considering a rustic look but without knots, like a mix of colors like hickory or heartwood/sapwood maple. I know hickory is pretty hard and tough on tooling, but are there other reasons for a specific hardwood's use or non-use? I run across deals on cherry, mahogany & walnut all the time too. I do have some hard maple in narrow widths and in sheets I have a 4x8 mahogany and a couple 5x5 Baltic Birch sheets; I can always use them for jigs if I go a different specie.

Considering cost, finishing headaches and work, what wood would you suggest? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

10-07(2x18x90)-42x30CM-DW2bGAR-CHERRY2ORANGE_p.jpg

[Jery Madigan]

That is the style of door I want to use - also frameless. I hate flat-sawn oak, but I am considering quatersawn.

[Ole Anderson]

I am just starting my kitchen remodel too. We chose Hickory as we have a bit of Oak overload in the rest of the house yet wanted a wood with character. Maple and Cherry is a bit monotone and Ash would look a lot like the Oak in the rest of the house. Plus Hickory is fairly inexpensive. I don't know that it is really hard on your tooling, but chip out is a problem, particularly on the router table when making rails, stiles and raised panels. Make a few extra sticks as you will loose a few to the router. I didn't want the heartache of planing all of my wood, so I had the local mill take it to final thickness. They choose to use the wide belt sander to avoid the chipout they might have encountered on the planer. I also am going frameless with 3/4" Hickory ply cabs with hot melt Hickory edge banding except shelves which will be solid edge banding. For drawers I am going with 5/8" beech, dovetailed with Blumotion tandem under mount slides. I did get some 1/2" prefinished Maple for drawer bottoms. Finishing is with 5 coats of wipeon 50/50 Pratt & Lambert #38 varnish/mineral spirits blocked after the final coat with 400 grit.

[Paul Symchych]

Any of the woods you mention could work well. Maple might be lowest on my list of preferences because of difficulty in finishing in other than a clear finish. It would be light colored though. Walnut and cherry's ultimate color could be darker than you say you want.
Hickory is cheap, machines well, finishes well and can be had in anything from a clear white like hard maple to a brownish tan. It can make attractively distinctive cabinetry.

[Jeff Duncan]

There's a LOT of stuff to consider when designing a kitchen and a lot that just comes down to personal choice. Other stuff comes down to thinking things through. For instance when I was still designing kitchens for a living I talked people out of those wine cubbies on a weekly basis. Yes they are very popular as people think they're 'cool'. Problem is in small kitchens they almost always end up being close to the stove, which happens to be the worst place to store wine. Most important thing about storing wine is to keep the temperature constant, hard to do in small kitchens and even harder if it's within several feet of a stove Just my two cents though so take it FWIW.

As far as choosing a wood and finish....that's a tough call. For instance, you can absolutely go dark....if you have the lighting to pull it off. If not then lighter is a better choice. Lighter can also make a small kitchen feel bigger. Then there's the option of going for a pigmented finish instead of stain. I personally haven't done a stain grade kitchen in over 10 years. Everything custom in my area has been painted for quite some time. Best bet is to get samples of everything your considering so you can look at them and see if they work with each other. Then start making your decisions from there.

good luck,
JeffD

[Mark Kay]

That is the style of door I want to use - also frameless. I hate flat-sawn oak, but I am considering quatersawn.

Thanks Jery, they will be overlay doors, not sure how much overlay yet, I think they'd be easier on me than doing inset. They are a Shaker design with a center stile, similar to Mission, but the router bit is around 22 degree angle. I figured I can do either flat plywood panels or reverse Shaker 3/8" panels. All the stiles & rails will be 3" wide and almost everything will be based on 18" wide--the pantries, over-fridge cab, drawers, glass door cab between the sink & pantry (two 18" doors), the appliance garage... even the bi-fold door by the sink has one 18" door and one 6" door. The cabs above the garage and sink are 12" and the base and wall cab at the very left between the door opening and the range are 9".

I am just starting my kitchen remodel too. We chose Hickory as we have a bit of Oak overload in the rest of the house yet wanted a wood with character. Maple and Cherry is a bit monotone and Ash would look a lot like the Oak in the rest of the house. Plus Hickory is fairly inexpensive. I don't know that it is really hard on your tooling, but chip out is a problem, particularly on the router table when making rails, stiles and raised panels. Make a few extra sticks as you will loose a few to the router. I didn't want the heartache of planing all of my wood, so I had the local mill take it to final thickness. They choose to use the wide belt sander to avoid the chipout they might have encountered on the planer. I also am going frameless with 3/4" Hickory ply cabs with hot melt Hickory edge banding except shelves which will be solid edge banding. For drawers I am going with 5/8" beech, dovetailed with Blumotion tandem under mount slides. I did get some 1/2" prefinished Maple for drawer bottoms. Finishing is with 5 coats of wipeon 50/50 Pratt & Lambert #38 varnish/mineral spirits blocked after the final coat with 400 grit.

Thanks Ole, and I went thru all your blog posts yesterday! My local lumberyard has great prices on plywood but they don't list hickory nor any prefinished plywoods either. I have another source locally but they don't have a price sheet, only quotes, and I hate to sound bothersome always e-mailing them for prices. In the recent past they quoted me 250 for 100BF of hickory and 285 for 100BF of hard maple. I can find air dried black cherry, hard maple or hickory thru craigslist from 1.25-1.85 per BF around here and walnut 4-5 bucks. I have even bought Goncalo Alves (Tigerwood) from a distributor selling shorts for around $1 per linear foot for 1x4.

Any of the woods you mention could work well. Maple might be lowest on my list of preferences because of difficulty in finishing in other than a clear finish. It would be light colored though. Walnut and cherry's ultimate color could be darker than you say you want.
Hickory is cheap, machines well, finishes well and can be had in anything from a clear white like hard maple to a brownish tan. It can make attractively distinctive cabinetry.

Thanks Paul. I have been reading as much as I can, books and mags, many found online, and hear maple, birch and cherry can be blotchy when finishing, though there are some steps like using a conditioner first.

There's a LOT of stuff to consider when designing a kitchen and a lot that just comes down to personal choice. Other stuff comes down to thinking things through. For instance when I was still designing kitchens for a living I talked people out of those wine cubbies on a weekly basis. Yes they are very popular as people think they're 'cool'. Problem is in small kitchens they almost always end up being close to the stove, which happens to be the worst place to store wine. Most important thing about storing wine is to keep the temperature constant, hard to do in small kitchens and even harder if it's within several feet of a stove Just my two cents though so take it FWIW.

As far as choosing a wood and finish....that's a tough call. For instance, you can absolutely go dark....if you have the lighting to pull it off. If not then lighter is a better choice. Lighter can also make a small kitchen feel bigger. Then there's the option of going for a pigmented finish instead of stain. I personally haven't done a stain grade kitchen in over 10 years. Everything custom in my area has been painted for quite some time. Best bet is to get samples of everything your considering so you can look at them and see if they work with each other. Then start making your decisions from there.

good luck,
JeffD

Thanks Jeff. The "wine" cabinet near the stove is sitting (standing?) on the workbench for the last few months and so far is being used to store canned stuff right now, as well as dry goods like packages of spaghetti. When in place, it probably won't be used for wine then either--me & the dog gave up drinking. But I may use it for 2-liter soda bottles, canned items, or even utensils like long spoons & ladles.

When you say everything has been painted, are you meaning solid colors or are you just referring to spraying instead of brushing or wiping? I was thinking of getting a cheaper HVLP setup if needed, I do have access to a 2hp compressor too.

Right now the kitchen only has a single dimmable overhead round fixture with 2 CFLs in it for lighting. I didn't draw up any plans for electrical revisions yet.

As for colors/species, I've tried a bunch of different combos in my program & will post more pics... the name/color is usually near the end of the pic's filename. As for how realistic they are I don't know...

(KINDREDCORNERSINK).jpgCopy of 04-12(2x18x90)-42x30CM-DW2b_CORNER.jpgCopy of 04-12(2x18x90)-42x30CM-DW2b_EAST.jpgCopy of 02-01(2x18x90)-42x30CM-DW2bGAR-ALD1-ORN_p1.jpgCopy of 10-07(2x18x90)-42x30CM-DW2bGAR-JATOBAORANGE_1.jpg

[Mark Kay]

This isn't the style door but if I go rustic, something like this coloring would be nice... is this hickory or just paint grade maple or cherry or "unselected for color" maple?

untitled.jpg

[Jim Matthews]

The best looking home-brew kitchens I've seen are painted.

The expense and difficulty in selecting enough material to make attractive panels is daunting.
If you paint, it's easy to change the look of your kitchen at a later date.

It's also easy to touch up the finish.

My rebuild will be a false frame and panel, with plywood in poplar frames.
The "raised" portion of the panel will be applied MDF which will be cut by a local provider so I need not deal with the dust.

[Mark Kay]

The best looking home-brew kitchens I've seen are painted.

The expense and difficulty in selecting enough material to make attractive panels is daunting.
If you paint, it's easy to change the look of your kitchen at a later date.

It's also easy to touch up the finish.

My rebuild will be a false frame and panel, with plywood in poplar frames.
The "raised" portion of the panel will be applied MDF which will be cut by a local provider so I need not deal with the dust.

Jim, thanks but my last girlfriend said she'd leave me if I chose white painted cabinets! She left anyway, probably tired of waiting for new cabs, but she'd be upset all over if she comes crawling back!

[Greg Portland]

The expense and difficulty in selecting enough material to make attractive panels is daunting.

This. Keep in mind that you can source high quality doors & they will come finished. The finish that's used is better than the average hobbyist could spray in his/her shop. I've done two kitchens so far: on one I bought Ikea cabinets (the good ones), cut them to fit, and sourced the doors. On the other I bought the cabinets (online custom) and installed them. Building the cabinets is only a small part of the process! Most folks have a limited window of downtime (spouse will allow a non-functioning kitchen only for so long!). Don't worry, you'll get plenty of WWing in when you install the cabinets and trim.

If this is going to be a year long build process in the garage then ignore my previous comments.

[Bill Wyko]

Thanks for the compliment. When I built my kitchen, Teak was only $10.00 bucks a board foot, now I see it as high as $40.00 a BF. If you are going to take your time, make it a learning experience, play with joinery and other aspects of woodworking that can refine your skills. I had a blast building my kitchen. I was quoted over 10k to have it done, I did it for less than $1200.00 myself. (Back in 1999)

[Ole Anderson]

Dominos are cool, but as you know, very expensive. My suggestion? Get the $100 K-4 Kreg jig for pocket screws along with the Kreg vice grip style face clamp and the Rockler pocket screw clamp. Pocket screws make a joint so strong you would swear they are welded (if you could weld wood). And being on the back side of the frame are invisible unless you stick your head in the cabinet. Don't bother adding glue.

[Mark Kay]

Dominos are cool, but as you know, very expensive. My suggestion? Get the $100 K-4 Kreg jig for pocket screws along with the Kreg vice grip style face clamp and the Rockler pocket screw clamp. Pocket screws make a joint so strong you would swear they are welded (if you could weld wood). And being on the back side of the frame are invisible unless you stick your head in the cabinet. Don't bother adding glue.

Thanks Ole, I bought the K3 Master Kit when it was the top kit before they changed the name to the now K4--it was $139 minus a discount coupon I had from Rockler, I don't remember if it was $20 off or 20% off. I don't remember the difference between the K3 Master and the $99 K4 but I think 1 difference is the toggle clamp handle is on the front I think... plus it had other things like the vacuum adapter & other stuff. I also bought the vise-grip type clamp that goes into the pocket hole, if that's the one you mean--it only has 1 flat pad. I also bought the Rockler one too when it was on sale last year...

[Mark Kay]

This. Keep in mind that you can source high quality doors & they will come finished. The finish that's used is better than the average hobbyist could spray in his/her shop. I've done two kitchens so far: on one I bought Ikea cabinets (the good ones), cut them to fit, and sourced the doors. On the other I bought the cabinets (online custom) and installed them. Building the cabinets is only a small part of the process! Most folks have a limited window of downtime (spouse will allow a non-functioning kitchen only for so long!). Don't worry, you'll get plenty of WWing in when you install the cabinets and trim.

If this is going to be a year long build process in the garage then ignore my previous comments.

Greg, thanks. Maybe I looked at things backwards--I wanted to tackle the doors before the carcasses. So I bought the router table, a Bosch 1617EVSPK router I can adjust from above the table, and the first bit set I think I bought was a Shaker rail & style set. I've since bought an Infinity coping sled so I'm all in it now--no turning back on the doors.

As for a year long build, I have been making changes in software and designing everything now since around 2009! I open the plan evey few days and try some new things, maybe more drawers or pullouts, etc. Who knows? Before it's finalized, it may even incorporate fold-down or pullout dog bowls!

But I MUST say, this is all being done IN THE HOUSE--no luxury of a wide open garage or basement. Out went the dry-rotted couch that was in the "parlor", the room only used when relatives came over, or where the artificial Christmas tree was set up for 2 weeks every year. Gone too are the relatives. The only thing left from the 80's is that old console stereo, now covered with nine Rubbermaid containers stacked and full of kitchen gadgets and cordless tools. Even the new fridge couldn't wait and the doors are back on it & it's running and functioning in the parlor, not too far away from the HF workbench. Even one of the upstairs bedrooms is now full of Rubbermaids & boxes. Thr Table saw is only a portable Bosch next to the TV right now, and the router table is almost arm length away from the recliner.

I guess you can now say I live & eat this kitchen project!

[Paul Symchych]

Mark: Looks like it could be hickory. Outside guess is soft maple with plenty of sapwood. I'd bet against cherry.