My Lungs Need Your Help!!!!

[Stew Hagerty]

My local woodworking club has a large communal workshop complete with all kinds of tools, equipment, benches, etc. We have a lot of turners in the club. For whatever reason, they like to use lacquer much of the time. The problem is, we have no (NONE, zip, zero) air filtration of exhaust (this is not to be confused with dust collection, which we do have).

Every time I go there, I can hardly stand it because of the lacquer smell that hangs in the air. In fact, after the first couple of times I went out after I joined I started taking my respirator with me to wear the whole time I'm there. Now, I'm certainly not against lacquer, I'm just aginst using it in an unventilated area. In fact I'm against using any solvent based finish in an unventilated area.

My question is this: I need some sort of documentation to take in for the next general meeting. I need something so damning as to spur them into action. I know this is very dangerous, I just want to be able to prove it to them beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Stew Hagerty]

The reason that I am broaching the question here is because, while I have done an internet search, I really would like something more woodworker specific to present to the leadership.

I really would appreciate all the help anyone can offer.

[Scott Holmes]

No windows? Maybe you could suggest that finishing smells need to be blown out of the shop once it dry. Maybe a fan in window or doorway.

I would also ask if other are bothered by the fumes.

You could also buy a quart of Target EM 6000 and let them try it they may start using it instead...

[Harry Hagan]

Stew,

I Googled this link in less than 30 seconds: http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/os/C/B123.PDF

I'm thinking you'd need a wheelbarrow to haul in all of the available documentation.

[Stew Hagerty]

No windows? Maybe you could suggest that finishing smells need to be blown out of the shop once it dry. Maybe a fan in window or doorway.

I would also ask if other are bothered by the fumes.

You could also buy a quart of Target EM 6000 and let them try it they may start using it instead...

An exhaust system is exactly what I would like to get them to install. Unfortunately there are no "operable" windows (there are fixed windows all the way around for natural light) and no doors that lead directly outdoors (the front door leads to the foyer/lunch room and the back door leads to the mechanical/storage room). What we really need is a finishing room (they could move one of the 2 dozen lathes into it if they want), but I would settle for some kind of straight exhaust of air exchange system.

Stew,

I Googled this link in less than 30 seconds: http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/os/C/B123.PDF

I'm thinking you'd need a wheelbarrow to haul in all of the available documentation.

Thank Harry, I had not seen this one. What was your google search? I actually do have quite a bit of information. I am just looking for something a little more woodworker specific in the hope that it may help to motivate the board.

[Rick Hutcheson]

My first thought is if you are the only one having a problem with the smell then you wearing your respirator is the solution. Or find a time when you are in the shop alone. A exhaust system like you want will take the heat and cool air out of the room, meaning more cost to bring the temp back. I suppose if the whole club is in a position to afford the extra cost then it may be the solution. Maybe the club can afford a paint booth with an exhaust system, but it will most likely cost every member to do that also. Also you need to check who owns the building if they will allow venting to the outside to be cut into their building. You will also need to account for intake air flow to replace what you are venting out. It might mean the club has to find a new building for their shop so that a separate room can be available. Sounds like a good reason to build your own shop at home.

[Jim Creech]

A MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) should be sufficient. Available wherever fine lacquers are sold.

[Harry Hagan]

An exhaust system is exactly what I would like to get them to install. Unfortunately there are no "operable" windows (there are fixed windows all the way around for natural light) and no doors that lead directly outdoors (the front door leads to the foyer/lunch room and the back door leads to the mechanical/storage room). What we really need is a finishing room (they could move one of the 2 dozen lathes into it if they want), but I would settle for some kind of straight exhaust of air exchange system.




Thank Harry, I had not seen this one. What was your google search? I actually do have quite a bit of information. I am just looking for something a little more woodworker specific in the hope that it may help to motivate the board.

Stew,

Something like, "Spray Painting Hazards".

A dedicated spray booth with outside venting and a good measure of common courtesy from your fellow woodworkers would go a long way to solving the problem.

[Stew Hagerty]

My first thought is if you are the only one having a problem with the smell then you wearing your respirator is the solution. Or find a time when you are in the shop alone. A exhaust system like you want will take the heat and cool air out of the room, meaning more cost to bring the temp back. I suppose if the whole club is in a position to afford the extra cost then it may be the solution. Maybe the club can afford a paint booth with an exhaust system, but it will most likely cost every member to do that also. Also you need to check who owns the building if they will allow venting to the outside to be cut into their building. You will also need to account for intake air flow to replace what you are venting out. It might mean the club has to find a new building for their shop so that a separate room can be available. Sounds like a good reason to build your own shop at home.

We are very fortunate to have had a benifactor (and club founder) that built & equipt the building specifically for and wholly owned by the club along with the property it is on. In fact we also have a storage barn at a separate site complete with a kiln and several thousand board feet of lumber. It's a large building with approximately 40% shop space, 40% meeting space, & 15% foyer/lunch room, and 5% Utility & storage room. We have around 8 full size lathes, one monster size (to me anyway, since I'm not a turner), and a bunch of midi & mini lathes. We also have, 2 SCMS stations, 2 table saws, 3 drill presses (one is a benchtop model), a 15" Jet planer, an 8" Grizzly jointer, a 16/32 Jet drum sander, a Sand Flee, plus a few other power tools and a bunch of typical hand tools. I believe we have somewhere around 200 members. Like I said, we're very fortunate. And believe me, with all of that, it's hard to complain.

The thing is we have young people that come in with their parents, guests, and sometimes the general public (for special events, sales, teaching, etc). I don't know if anyone else has or is complaining, but I worry about more than just myself with this issue.

[Stew Hagerty]

A MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) should be sufficient. Available wherever fine lacquers are sold.

The MSDS was the first thing I printed. I'm just trying to collect more ammunition.

Stew,

Something like, "Spray Painting Hazards".

A dedicated spray booth with outside venting and a good measure of common courtesy from your fellow woodworkers would go a long way to solving the problem.

Ahhhh, that's why I never saw that one. I never looked up anything about the action of spraying, just the solvent used. In fact, I don't even know for sure that they're spraying it. I actually think they are just wiping it on while it's still turning on the lathe.

[Rick Hutcheson]

Well Stew then maybe you can get them to put in a paint booth. Most clubs are not as lucky to have that type of setup to work in. I sure wish our wood club, over 400 members, could find a place like that given to them.

[Harry Hagan]

Ahhhh, that's why I never saw that one. I never looked up anything about the action of spraying, just the solvent used. In fact, I don't even know for sure that they're spraying it. I actually think they are just wiping it on while it's still turning on the lathe.

That's good to hear. At least you're not inhaling the particulates.

[Stew Hagerty]

Well Stew then maybe you can get them to put in a paint booth. Most clubs are not as lucky to have that type of setup to work in. I sure wish our wood club, over 400 members, could find a place like that given to them.

There are actually 3 different clubs that use the space. Although only the one actually owns it all. That club is named as a "woodworkers" club, but it is mostly turners (as evidenced by the abundance of lathes). Then there is a "turners" club, although the membership in that one is almost entirely composed of members of the first club. And finally ther is the other "woodworkers" club, athough this one really is made up of woodworkers that make thinks other than just turnings.

Now, you have to belong to the first (main) club in order to use the shop. The other two clubs use the meeting space as well as maintaining a library (3rd club) of magazines & dvd's. The second club seems redundant to me, but to each his own.

[Rich Engelhardt]

My Lungs Need Your Help!!!!

Nitrocellulose lacquer?

It's not your lungs that need help, it's your central nervous system and brain that need help.

NC lacquer usually has either a member of the Ketone family of solvents or a heavy aromatic, such as Toluol in it.
Both/either wreck havoc with your CNS and turn your brain to goo.

[Stew Hagerty]

Nitrocellulose lacquer?

It's not your lungs that need help, it's your central nervous system and brain that need help.

NC lacquer usually has either a member of the Ketone family of solvents or a heavy aromatic, such as Toluol in it.
Both/either wreck havoc with your CNS and turn your brain to goo.

Yup, exactly. And I'm already disabled due to neurological problems, so I certainly don't need any more. Like I said, I'm actually concerned about more than just myself. It's not good for anyone to be in there with those fumes. And yet, besides the actual paying members, we have children, non-member guests, and sometimes even the general public. It's just plain dangerous.