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Thread: Hammer A3-31 Hinge side adjustment

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    I just did a few tests on my brand spanking new A3-31. If I set the dial to 0 at the center, the back runs .003" high and the front is .005". Taking a measurement from the outfeed side of the table, setting the dial to 0 one inch into the infeed table, at 18" the table drops off .015".
    Yesterday I followed Brian's procedure for removing the "Bows" and it worked really well. I now have only a couple of .001" cavities when the tables are checked with a straight edge, and confirmed with my Oneway, front to back, end to end and the diagonals. Additionally, the infeed and outfeed are coplanar. Today's task is to get them coplar with the cutting head which will probably create some residual issues.
    Without Brian's post and the Heartwood link I would be lost and pissed, instead I am more in Rod's camp, I think it was Rod who pointed out that tuning a new toy teaches you how it really functions and is a valuable educational process. The bottom line is that Felder/Hammer should really put together a comprehensive Owners Manual and service protocol for these tools.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McNiel View Post
    The bottom line is that Felder/Hammer should really put together a comprehensive Owners Manual and service protocol for these tools.
    Yes. And lower the price if they are going leave all this tuning to the customer.

    I've been trying to get the fence to slide smoothly back and forth and am a little POd and frustrated right now. Maybe when I calm down I'll run it through Brian's process.
    Last edited by Julie Moriarty; 09-22-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    ... And lower the price if they are going leave all this tuning to the customer...
    That will probably never happen. At this level of machine, there is very little profit margin. $3K is a lot to you and me but is budget/value/entry-level in the grand picture of Felder, et al. It might be the biggest investment we ever make in a home shop but companies like this depend on volume rather than margin-per-unit to stay profitable. Also, the US is unique in that for Felder (and SCM) globally, the vast majority of these machines are sold through regional dealers, who usually have their own techs that handle setup and tuning. Here in the US, our territory is so vast that most customers would probably end up paying just as much to fly a tech out and adjust the machine as they did for the machine, itself.

    I remember one of the Asian companies knocking off the FS30 Smart. Buyers told me the machines were lemons but that the documentation was excellent. I actually downloaded a copy of their pdf setup manual and would send it to clients. Several owners said it was a great help, LOL.

    Erik

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    That will probably never happen. At this level of machine, there is very little profit margin. $3K is a lot to you and me but is budget/value/entry-level in the grand picture of Felder, et al.
    It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights.
    That's crazy! What does an AD5-31 go for these days?

    Erik

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    It's $5K now, with the Silent Power cutterblock. Throw in tax and shipping and you're pushing $6K. $3K would have given me less griping rights.
    I agree. Its a $6k+ machine normal price with shipping, tax, spiral head, mobile cart, and the digital wheel. And add another $300 with one short extension and bracket.

    Maybe folks dont realize current pricing pricing when we’ve been complaining loudly lately. It’s a big outlay for a small home/hobby shop that really sucks when it doesn’t work well off the crate and takes a lot of effort and learning to try to tune it yourself. It’s the kind of money that could have bought two separates from Powermatic or other brands. It’s the kind of money that I’m expecting to be perfect out of the box. It’s a lot of coin for a compromised machine that shouldn’t be compromised in settings and readiness to go to work.

    Honestly if these things need need a local tech to tune them before delivery they should tell you that when you talk to them about ordering. It seems like a nice machine but I had to do the walk away routine to keep from getting really mad. I’m distracting myself with other things until I can calmly come back to it as otherwise it’s causing me lots of stress. I really needed a working on delivery machine.

    And honestly I’m kind of tired of everyone’s comments over the last week making me feel guilty for expecting more. The consumer should have rights to feel upset, even if I were a billion dollar entity. Having to troubleshoot and tune a new machine is down time for a business which costs lots of money and lost opportunity run time. While I’m not a business, i have very limited time for my hobby, and spending any of it having to deal with this after this large of a purchase is very hard to swallow. While waiting on delivery I was drooling over a Hammer K3 but I’ve certainly written off a sliding saw from Felder at this point. I’m sure I’ll get the jointer dialed in eventually but how long will it take and what opportunities are lost in the mean time.
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-22-2018 at 4:38 PM.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Its a $6k+ machine normal price with shipping, tax, spiral head, mobile cart, and the digital wheel. And add another $300 with one short extension and bracket.

    Maybe folks dont realize current pricing pricing when we’ve been complaining loudly lately. It’s a big outlay for a small home/hobby shop that really sucks when it doesn’t work well off the crate and takes a lot of effort and learning to try to tune it yourself. It’s the kind of money that could have bought two separates from Powermatic or other brands. It’s the kind of money that I’m expecting to be perfect out of the box. It’s a lot of coin for a compromised machine that shouldn’t be compromised in settings and readiness to go to work.

    Honestly if these things need need a local tech to tune them before delivery they should tell you that when you talk to them about ordering. It seems like a nice machine but I had to do the walk away routine to keep from getting really mad. I’m distracting myself with other things until I can calmly come back to it as otherwise it’s causing me lots of stress. I really needed a working on delivery machine.

    And honestly I’m kind of tired of everyone’s comments over the last week making me feel guilty for expecting more. The consumer should have rights to feel upset, even if I were a billion dollar entity. Having to troubleshoot and tune a new machine is down time for a business which costs lots of money and lost opportunity run time. While I’m not a business, i have very limited time for my hobby, and spending any of it having to deal with this after this large of a purchase is very hard to swallow. While waiting on delivery I was drooling over a Hammer K3 but I’ve certainly written off a sliding saw from Felder at this point. I’m sure I’ll get the jointer dialed in eventually but how long will it take and what opportunities are lost in the mean time.
    Well said, Greg!

    And for anyone trying to make you feel guilty for complaining, just tell them you bought the rights to complain when a Festool priced machine arrived at your door with Asian machine quality.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    I think you’re reading into the comments, neither of you have anything to feel guilty about but as with any public grievances you may receive a difference of opinion in the replies.

    I gripe about this stuff plenty, myself, but at some point if you want the performance you can put aside some of the complaints and spend some time tuning it then have pretty much what you want.

    I feel I went through quite a bit of grief having to engineer and build a new motor mount for the FD-250 but I also weighted my options of selling the machine and starting over or just fixing it. I wasn’t thrilled about needing to do all that but it’s turned me into a bit more of a realist with these machines.
    I recieved and ignored advice at the time to overlook the FD250 and search for a Kolle, Hofmann or Martin. Given the same choice a year later I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a used one of that later group even at multiple of what I paid for the Felder. Taking time out of everyday work to reengineer a piece of machinery is expensive and disruptive.

    All in all the benefits still outweigh the negatives in my opinion. It has also swayed me toward more serious equipment for future purchases.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 09-22-2018 at 5:32 PM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Florida
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    I hear ya. I’m not trying to imply people are purposely trying to make me feel guilty, just that I’m tired of feeling guilty and some of the feedback makes me feel guilty about whining. I’ll have to suck it up eventually and deal with it. LOL.

    Not a big deal for some to adjust these things and I get it but I wasn’t prepared for it.
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-22-2018 at 5:36 PM.

  10. #40
    I bought a new A3 31 a couple of years ago, picked it up at the Felder store, lifted it out of my truck, lowered into a mobile base, wheeled it into my shop, and cut wood. Joints fine, planes fine, no snipe. I never checked with dial indicator, straight edge, or feeler gages. Should I have? I like it.

  11. #41
    Join Date
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    John, I literally did the same as you 4 years ago and it still gives me square dimensioned timber that fits.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Toledo Ohio
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    5
    John,
    I had a similar experience with my A3 31. It was hard to resist my obsessive tendencies to get out the dial indicators, but I decided to use the machine for a while to see how it actually cut wood. The results were nearly perfect with no machine adjustments. I did find that the jointer required a lighter touch than my previous DJ 20. Also the minimal snipe when thicknessing can be eliminated by lifting the stock slightly as it exits the machine. Measure the wood or the results first, then look at machine adjustments.

  13. #43
    Re Julies comment on getting the fence to slide smoothly - I'm old school about oil, grease, and wax- the fence on my A3 slides just fine -all surfaces waxed, all threads oiled. The fence slides well on the front 8 inches where I edge joint and I think the back 4 inches is just a parking place while face jointing. I have the bar on the end on which the fence slides set a little higher than the manual states. After working thru the movements and adjustments on this fence I'm quite happy with it.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    I purchased this JP last week, prior to discovering this thread and seeing julie's frustration with her new planer.

    Had I seen either of these threads, I probably wouldn't have bought the Hammer and would have gone with the Powermatic.

    But lying awake at 5AM this morning, thinking about some of the comments made earlier in this thread, mostly about the adjustment and flatness of the tables, I figured neither of these were really an issue.

    On the infeed table, being a few thou out across the width of the table or along the length really bears no relevance to the way the workpiece turns out. The infeed table is there to provide support, the jointer is flattening the work piece removing any cupping of working, so being a few thou out just prior to the cutter head, really doesn't affect anything as all that wood is just waste and about to be removed.

    Likewise, the outfeed table isn't affecting the actual cut, it's just there to provide support, so my theory, only the 3'' to 4" past the cutter head needs to be aligned properly to the top of the cutter blades and even being a few thou out of flat, across the width, doesn't affect the actual workpiece as long as there is good support across the width in this area.

    So although is seems we should have perfectly flat tables, I'm pretty comfortable in my assumptions that is is not really necessary.

    So after thinking about this, I drifted back off to sleep around 5:50AM.

    But I do appreciate the wok put in by some earlier posters trying to make this tool as perfect as possible.

    Now I wait for my A3-31 to arrive sometime next week, my prior planer and jointer sold and left my garage yesterday, so I hope i will be satisfied with my new, most expensive to me, tool.

  15. #45
    I am in the process of tuning my A3 31. I have it set up with the spiral cutter head. I run a small wood shop and was in the middle of my busiest month so far.
    Suddenly the jointer began to leave a snipe in the last inch of the board being jointed. I noted that the oufeed table had dropped below the level of the cutterhead. The drop did not occur gradeually. Previous jointing (4/4 walnut) was fine - one board later, snipe,
    Tech support was good in this case; Brian guided me through adjusting the height of the outfeed table. (I can give details if anyone is interested). Finally got it with a deal of wrestling.
    No snipe, but the tables were no longer remotely co-planar. The outboard end of the infeed table was higher than the inboard end. It was out of whack by eighths of an inch rather than thousandths. The machine was eating one end of the boards I was trying to join: the lead end kept getting thinner while the trailing edge escaped the blade.
    Another call to Brian. Adjusted the temple bolts on the outfeed table to bring the outfeed table to a thou or two below the max height of the penultimate inboard and outboard carbide cutters. The 3 page instructions I have from Hammer then say to use the temple bolts on the infeed side to attain a co planar state.
    No joy. Called tech support. Off to adjust the height of the hinges. I freed the inboard, adjusted the outboard hinge height adjusting mechanism (details available) achieved something resembling a coplanar state and tightened everything down.
    The hold down lever on the infeed side would not engage. I had changed the height of the infeed table enough that the height of the (silver) metal tab that engages the hold down lever had to be adjusted. Success; I can joint wood again.
    Next adventure is trying to adjust he feed rollers so the planer feeds properly. Most of the time I have to push/pull the stock through. If anyone has any experience with this problem, I welcome any advice.

    Thank you for your attention.

    If it would be helpful I do have:
    A three page instruction sheet from the Felder mother ship about adjusting the jointer tables with the temple bolts
    The Felder booklet of maybe a dozen exploded parts views (all parts' names are in German) of the sub-assemblies of the A3 31

    If it would be helpful, I could post them if there is a mechanism for it on this site.


    "There are no mistakes; only unexpected design opportunities."

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