Tail Vise Quandary

[Stew Hagerty]

I have a wonderful, heavy, flat & solid workbench that I inherited from my father-in-law and I'm in the process of making it my own. I'm making a few modifications that better suit my needs and ways of working. I added a tool trough (some say dust catcher) along the back edge. Because I'm in a wheelchair and need the room to get around in the shop, the best place for the bench is against a wall. I would have preferred it out in the middle, but I just couldn't lay it out any other way give my tools and the space I have to put them. I did put it on one of Rockler's All Terrain mobile bases in case I need to move it away from the wall for a larger project. Since it's against the wall, I added the trough for a place to store my holdfasts, wax paper, sandpaper strip dispenser, sanding mat, etc.

Next I modified the face vise. His original installation put the steel fixed jaw flush with the front of the bench and then he covered it with a piece of hard maple. This meant that I couldn't clamp anything flush with the front of the bench. So, I tore it all out and cut out the front of the benchtop to recess the steel jaw. Then I covered it with a piece or rock hard jatoba and flushed it all up with the front of the benchtop. Then I reworked the movable jaw by replacing his original hard maple face with a massive, and matching, jatoba one. I also, even though the movable jaw has the typical center mounted steel dog, I added a pair of pop-up brass Veritas dogs in that big jaw that correspond with dog holes in the benchtop.

OK, this is the next modification that I want to make, and it brings up the question that I have. The bench has a tail vise. It's a center mounted vise with dog holes on each edge that line up with the rows of dog holes down the front and back of the bench. And it also racks like crazy when I try to use just the front dog holes to clamp something. I've used spacers placed in the other side of the vise to compensate but that's kind of a pain constantly changing them every time I clamp something, not to mention having the spacers drop through when I loosen the vise to reposition the workpiece. So, I bought a Veritas Surface Vise. It works ok, but it's just not the same. Besides, I have to use a long thin spacer between the vise face and most pieces that I want to plane because of how far the thing projects above the surface of the bench.

So, what I want to do is replace the existing tail vise with either the Veritas Quick Release Tail Vise or the BenchCrafted Tail Vise (Wagon Vise). They both look like they would be relatively easy to retrofit into my bench. I'm just torn as to which one to use. They both have advantages & disadvantages. The Veritas would be likely be the easiest of the two to install. I'd just have to notch out the top so that the sliding jaw would line up with the existing front line of dog holes. The BenCrafted would undoubtedly be the stronger of the two and only the dog block moves, so the handle doesn't actually move in and out. That means I can put a cabinet closer to the end of the bench and therefore give me more room.

I would appreciate any input, comments, and/or advise that you can give.

Here are some photos of my bench:

Stew's Workbench.jpgShop - 07 Bench View.jpgTail Vise.jpg100_1520.jpg2012-09-28_11-15-22_205.jpg2012-09-28_11-15-42_608.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

OK, this is the next modification that I want to make, and it brings up the question that I have. The bench has a tail vise. It's a center mounted vise with dog holes on each edge that line up with the rows of dog holes down the front and back of the bench. And it also racks like crazy when I try to use just the front dog holes to clamp something. I've used spacers placed in the other side of the vise to compensate but that's kind of a pain constantly changing them every time I clamp something, not to mention having the spacers drop through when I loosen the vise to reposition the workpiece.

You might consider this before trying a more expensive solution:

1 - Anti-Rack Spacer Stack.jpg

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...k-Spacer-Stack

It is an easy accessory to make and with the notches sized and spaced for your vise it will stay in place when the vise is opened.

Your vise appears to open further than mine so you may want to cut another block to extend the range. My vise only opens about four inches so the 1/16" shim and the 1X2" block allows for all the sizes needed.

One of my thoughts for a bench is to have a tail vise with screw and jaws that can be easily removed from the bench and a wagon vise that has a removable wheel. That will allow for the best of both worlds. Though a good tail vise may be my final choice. My tail vise sees a lot of work holding my shooting board, bench hooks and lumber to be cut. Everyone has a different way of working. That is why we have so many different benches to do what we want to do and not what some one else does.

[Stew Hagerty]

You might consider this before trying a more expensive solution:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...k-Spacer-Stack

It is an easy accessory to make and with the notches sized and spaced for your vise it will stay in place when the vise is opened.

Your vise appears to open further than mine so you may want to cut another block to extend the range. My vise only opens about four inches so the 1/16" shim and the 1X2" block allows for all the sizes needed.

One of my thoughts for a bench is to have a tail vise with screw and jaws that can be easily removed from the bench and a wagon vise that has a removable wheel. That will allow for the best of both worlds. Though a good tail vise may be my final choice. My tail vise sees a lot of work holding my shooting board, bench hooks and lumber to be cut. Everyone has a different way of working. That is why we have so many different benches to do what we want to do and not what some one else does.

Thanks Jim,

You know, I've thought about that kind of thing before. Although I admit I was thinking of the "deck of cards" kind, while this would definately be an improvement. In fact, I might just give it a try. The other reason is the cabinet next to the end of my bench. I invariably have to move things around if I want to use that vise. Between the swing of the handle and the fact that my vise will actually extend a good 6" something is always in the way. Also, my vice is full width, and with the bench is against the wall, any anti-rack device would have to project above the bench.

As for your "best of both worlds" idea. I have thought about just cutting back the jaw on the tail vise to allow room for the other vise to operate. I have almost 9" from the front of the bench to the first stabilizer bar.

I keep going back and forth between these two vise options. The BenchCrafted would take up less space, but it would be more difficult to install and (money seems to always be a factor) it is $90 more than the Veritas.
I am fully confident in the quality of either one. Either one would satisfy my primary reason for the alteration. I don't know...

[Jim Koepke]

Also, my vice is full width, and with the bench is against the wall, any anti-rack device would have to project above the bench.

If you made the anti-rack stack out of curved material, the unused shims could hang below the bench. Just a thought from outside the box.

jtk

[Stew Hagerty]

Yeah, I suppose that might work. I think i'm past that now. I really have my heart set on a wagon vise. I just need to figure out which one.

So, any of you out there that have some experience with either the BenchCrafted or the Veritas, please let me know what you think.

Rob Lee, I would welcome anything you have to say on the matter, even though I'm pretty sure which one you'd recommend.

[Jim Koepke]

I really have my heart set on a wagon vise. I just need to figure out which one.

My choice would be for the one with the most travel. One of my biggest complaints about my current vise is even with the dog holes closely spaced it is sometimes a pain to hold small pieces. With a long travel, the dog holes could be spaced at half the travel to remedy such quandaries.

The other thought since my knowledge is limited in this area is do both of them have stationary screws that move the wagon?

My thinking is the screw stays in one place and not coming out of the tail of the bench makes sense and keeps me from bumping into it when walking past. It would also allow for a way to quickly remove the handle/wheel if there was a reason to have the tail of the bench clear. With my current set up there is a block that will hook up to my bench legs on dowels so that it is even with the bench ends. This allows panels to be clamped to the end of the bench for cutting joinery and such.

My thought has been for a handle that can be pinned to the vise shaft inside the end surface. It may just be a dream, but life if for fulfilling our dreams, right?

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

So, what I want to do is replace the existing tail vise with either the Veritas Quick Release Tail Vise or the BenchCrafted Tail Vise (Wagon Vise). They both look like they would be relatively easy to retrofit into my bench. I'm just torn as to which one to use. They both have advantages & disadvantages. The Veritas would be likely be the easiest of the two to install. I'd just have to notch out the top so that the sliding jaw would line up with the existing front line of dog holes. The BenCrafted would undoubtedly be the stronger of the two and only the dog block moves, so the handle doesn't actually move in and out. That means I can put a cabinet closer to the end of the bench and therefore give me more room.


Hi Stew

I have the BC wagon vise, and love it. However, unless you are able to remove and rotate the bench top, it will be a lot of work to install. Also, I think that it is not as friendly to retrofit as to install when building the bench as you have existing dog holes to deal with.

My recommendation would be to go with the Veritas QR tail vise. This installs quite easily and it works really, really well.

With a proper tail vise - one that does not require any jigging or add-ons to work - you will simply not know yourself!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stew Hagerty]

Hi Stew

I have the BC wagon vise, and love it. However, unless you are able to remove and rotate the bench top, it will be a lot of work to install. Also, I think that it is not as friendly to retrofit as to install when building the bench as you have existing dog holes to deal with.

My recommendation would be to go with the Veritas QR tail vise. This installs quite easily and it works really, really well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek, that is really good information. I guess I didn't realize that I would have to actually remove the top to install the BC vise.

You said that it would be difficult as a retrofit because of the existing dog holes. Is that because it would be difficult to line it up properly, or is there some other reason?

[Chuck Nickerson]

I have both (two shops, two benches). My opinions follow.

The LV QR was a much easier retrofit. This is a one-time advantage, but a real one.
The LV QR vise also gives you clamping in the vertical skirt of your bench.
Some people (e.g. Larry Williams at Old Street Tools) use this to great advantage,

The BC WV has twice the travel. Do I really need 12" of travel? Not yet.

I solved the dog-spacing issue in the following manner. My dog holes are 6" apart except on the vise's jaw.
There I have two that are 3" apart. That effectively gives me 3" spacing along the entire bench.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Derek, that is really good information. I guess I didn't realize that I would have to actually remove the top to install the BC vise.

You said that it would be difficult as a retrofit because of the existing dog holes. Is that because it would be difficult to line it up properly, or is there some other reason?

Hi Stew

Placement of the dogs is one reason - I'm not sure how easy it is to rout out the waste for the screw, etc so that the dogs align, or whether there is space to do so.

The other issue here is that the BC vise is designed for a 4" thick bench top. One can add a spacer to build up a thinner top (mine in 3 1/2"), but there is not a lot of leeway (it is the wheel that is the issue - it must sit below the line to the top of bench).

The Veritas just needs part of the side of the top being removed. I think that is easier to do as your bench looks easy enough - in fact the ideal design fr this vise.

Regards from Perth

Derek