Pocket holes, paint, and 2-sided visibility

[daniel lane]

All -

I'm building a carcase that will be visible from both sides when complete, and am considering using pocket screw for assembly. Originally, I thought I would do them on the inside (especially since this means that I don't have to buy the $25+ right-angle Kreg clamps), but since I will be painting the outside, I'm starting to consider drilling on the outside and plugging the holes. A couple of questions for the crowd:

1. Anyone done this? Is it fairly easy to hide the plugs under the paint? I'll be using milk paint.
2. Anyone done this without $50+ worth of clamps? I'm figuring on using a couple of biscuits to keep the edges aligned, possibly without glue in the slots. (3/4" ply, wanting to avoid the 'telegraphing' issue.)
   
   • I have some of the Rockler 'clamp-it' squares that I can use for assembly - they will (hopefully) hold the parts aligned at the edges when I drive the screws.
   
   
3. Should I just abandon the pocket screw concept and go with the standard biscuit/glue approach? I have enough clamps, but would prefer the faster (screw) method, given the limited availability of time for this project.

If there's any concern that they'll be visible, I may just deal with them on the inside of the carcase, but I thought I'd ask if anyone's done this.

Oh, this would be the first pocket hole project I've ever completed...generally try to avoid them, but in this case I thought it might be worth it. In any case, the question is asked out of complete ignorance, so any/all advice welcome!


Thanks,

daniel

[Michael Dedon]

I've used pocket screws on the exterior face and overlayed with 1/8" or 1/4" ply. I did my painted kitchen and MILs cherry stained kitchen that way for the show faces on both uppers and bases.

[Sam Murdoch]

There is nothing faster about needing to fill holes for painting. The fewer fastenings you need to conceal the better and easier your finish will be. If you have a biscuit and glue option there is no compromise in time, efficiency, structural integrity and far better results in the end. Make a few cauls for your glue up and you will need many fewer clamps.

[daniel lane]

Sam,

This might be the fact I'm tired after most of the day in the shop (really.....I'm complaining about that?), but you make a good point. I have some 2x6s in the rack that are several years old (read: should be air dried by now), I'm thinking I may just cut and plane up a few cauls out of one of those and go for the biscuit/glue option. Frankly, I'm not huge on the biscuits, but a couple to maintain alignment will make me much happier in the long run.

Since I've got a day or two before I'll get back in the shop, anyone have a success story to convince me to go over to the dark side?



daniel

[Sam Murdoch]

"anyone have a success story to convince me to go over to the dark side? "

There are lots of discussions on this forum about attaching face frames to cabinets and many variations on the theme. That being said, if you search my past submissions to the subject you will read that I attach all my face frames with biscuits after assembling them on the bench with pocket screws. Lots of personal success stories for this method . Here is on thread:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...or-Face-Frames
Here is another on the subject:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...me-Help-Needed

[daniel lane]

Sam,

Thanks for the links. I've read several stories about the use of pocket holes, especially with face frames, I think I was hoping someone's done carcass construction where the holes would be visible during daily use and was able to fill or otherwise hide them. I've never seen the plugs in use, and although I've read about some successes there (even people using contrasting wood for effect), I was wondering if perhaps people have used them in instances where they can no longer see the joinery method after the project is completed.

In general, I find myself oddly recalcitrant in accepting pocket hole joinery, even though I can see the benefits of not needing so many clamps, etc., and was hoping for a story or two where they were successfully hidden after use. I will continue to comb the forum archives to see what I can find.


Thanks again,

daniel

[Phil Thien]

I agree w/ the biscuits.

For the record, I've worked with quite a bit of milk paint, but the original (real) stuff, and the General Finishes stuff that comes in milk-paint colors. I like both of those products, btw, but for different reasons.

Nonetheless, plugging holes and then covering with paint isn't as easy as you might think. Anything like a plugged pocked hole will eventually telegraph through the paint, due to differences in expansion/contraction.

[Steve Jenkins]

I did cabinets for my laundry room and wanted to try pocket hole joinery just because. The cabs were 7'6" tall. I put the pockets in the bottom of the bottom and the top of the top and under the center shelf. The shelf had a 1" thick solid edgeband on the front. It hid the pockets nicely unless you bent over and looked up at it. I didn't bother to fill any of the holes as they were all out of sight.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

I've used the plugs you can buy from most Kreg dealers.

They work as well as plugging any fastener hole.

[Steve Griffin]

Keep in mind you don't have to use just one method. I use pocket screws as a first choice, but use biscuits or pin nail/glue or clamp/glue for areas which are visible on both sides. I can't think of any situation where I would use a plugged pocket screw.

[Cary Falk]

I would do biscuits or dowels. Paint shows surface flasw worse than a clear finsih. My experience is that no matter how good you think you got the surface it is never good enough when the paint goes on.

[daniel lane]

Thanks, guys. I decided on biscuits and glue, with cauls and lots of clamps (seven each side of a 24" glue up). The cauls aren't quite 'bowclamp-esque', hence the number of clamps. In the long run, this has cost me more time, but it will look better, I think. What happened was I cut the biscuit slots on the end pieces slightly offset from center to leave the front/back panel ends proud so I could plane them even. Turns out I adjusted the biscuit cutter the wrong way and was left with the sides proud of the f/b ends! This gave me the "opportunity" to glue on strips of some thin veneer on the panel ends, which I will then sand or rout (route?) to bring it flush. Overall, I think it will make for a better painted surface.

One of these days I will have a project that I can use my pocket hole jig on, but for now, it's not this one!


Thanks again,

daniel

[Richard Coers]

On a couple corner cabinets I made, I ran an 1/8" thick piece of material, maybe 2" wide (just enough to cover the pocket hole) from top to bottom. I radiused over the edge that faces the inside, squared edge up at the faceframe. It goes on with a couple pins, and covers all the holes in one quick application. You have to make a little notch in the shelves, but it trims it out quite nicely.

[daniel lane]

On a couple corner cabinets I made, I ran an 1/8" thick piece of material, maybe 2" wide (just enough to cover the pocket hole) from top to bottom. I radiused over the edge that faces the inside, squared edge up at the faceframe. It goes on with a couple pins, and covers all the holes in one quick application. You have to make a little notch in the shelves, but it trims it out quite nicely.

Thanks, Richard, that's a great idea. I'll look into that at my next application. On a side note, I've spent a lot of time in Pekin and south Peoria, so hi from an 'occasional local'!


daniel