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Thread: CLTT..need some input

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    3,922

    CLTT..need some input

    I want to get into CLTT , Magic touch here in SA has the printers , paper and heatpress etc.. good system will cost me round $3000
    Oki TMT 610 enhanced
    HTP 234 heat press
    200 sheets A4 CPM6.4 transfer paper.
    Accessories like pads etc all in
    I could probably go cheaper on the net or use alternative products , but would prefer the local support
    I have lots of applications , but my main concern is the density of the print on solid substrates like anodised aluminium etc.
    I'm struggling to find pictures on the net.
    I do realise that without white you wont get the vibrant colours on dark substrates.
    I am assuming one can print on anything if it survives the heat pressing?
    I have seen videos on the magic touch site where they use this paper on acrylic awards, but the print looked a little insipid?
    I have looked at the cltt threads here...Any other advice for me..
    Rodney Gold, Toker Bros trophies, Cape Town , South Africa :
    Roland 2300 rotary . 3 x ISEL's ..1m x 500mm CnC .
    Tekcel 1200x2400 router , 900 x 600 60w Shenui laser , 1200 x 800 80w Reci tube Shenhui Laser
    6 x longtai lasers 400x600 60w , 1 x longtai 20w fiber
    2x Gravo manual engravers , Roland 540 large format printer/cutter. CLTT setup
    1600mm hot and cold laminator , 3x Dopag resin dispensers , sandblasting setup, acid etcher

  2. #2
    Rodney

    As a long time user of MagicTouch paper they are the only game in town for hard substrate transfer paper. It has its limitations. I don't feel it works well on wood though some others seem to have had some success. It doesn't have the density/opacity for acrylic. Where I like and use the product is for multi-colored name tags and for brushed silver and gold plaque metals.

    There is a fabric paper (TTC) and a paper which can be bonded to the back of acrylic (ORD) to produce quite a good look.

    When I got into CLTT I bought the MagicTouch package which meant that I way overpaid for the printer but it has the MT drivers which are helpful when selecting print properties. My Panasonic printer is now over 10 years old and still going strong--it's an oil fuser model and I had to replace two fusers--one my fault, the other from wear.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

  3. #3
    Rodne,

    Mike is the expert here on Magic Touch!

    A couple things to add.... Obviously the better qualty printer the better the product. Are you looking tabloid size?

    It will scratch so you may want to put a protective coat on it depending upon uses.

    It is heat and solvent sensitive, good/bad the good is if you screw up a piece a bit of acetone will remove the toner
    and you can try again. You want to make sure pieces aren't in direct sunlight or by a direct heat source.

    I did tons of tiles with this, but went back to dye sub because I had an issue with tiles. The local suppliers
    quit making the ones I wanted so I started doing dye sub.

    Dye sub and Magic Touch each have their place. I would explore the various options with Magic Touch.
    For metal transfers the text is BLACK! (I believe Mike has a toner cartridge that he can change in and out
    with his laser printer, makes it cheap and easy) The toner actually "stands off" the metal giving it a raised effect.

    I look forward to see how you will use this!
    Martin Boekers

    1 - Epilog Radius 25watt laser 1998
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2005
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2007
    1 - Epilog Fusion M2 32 120watt laser with camera 2015
    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
    Zerox Phaser 6360 Laser Printer
    numerous other tools and implements
    of distruction/distraction!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    3,922
    Thanks guys , I'm gonna pull the trigger tomorrow , I have spoken to another engraver/trophy shop 1600km from me (so he was free with info , we aren't competitors) that uses it directly onto Rowmark type engraving material + all manner of uncoated metals as well as cast acrylic.
    It will be an added service , I intend to use it on my Sino ersatz Rowmark for badges (as opposed to putting a printed sticker on) and dome it , want to try use it as an etch mask for brass and stainless steel and aluminium , want to do easy full colour plaques on anodised aluminium sheet and wood , print data plates and do general tags and labels on aluminium , formica and whatever I can get my hands on. Some of my customers don't want the sticker look.
    I will make registration jigs and print direct and then die cut using either my lasers or my CnC machines .. I'm pretty sure I will find some other applications if I think out the box.
    Longevity and scratch resistance is probably not too much of an issue for me , most likely the main application will be small stuff which I will dome..but will have a look at what I can coat with for more durability and uv resistance.
    Sublimation is not an option for me , I don't want to be held hostage to sublimatible inks or products.
    I investigated water transfer printing (too much hassle) and UV printing (A3 machine is $35k...way too much)
    A4 printer will be fine for me as a start , if it takes off , I can go bigger...if not , well at least I have a good quality colour laser printer and a heat press I might have no use for
    I've read of foils that adhere to a laser print ..Is there any way I could use this on a CLTT'ed product? Would be great for certificates and the like?
    Rodney Gold, Toker Bros trophies, Cape Town , South Africa :
    Roland 2300 rotary . 3 x ISEL's ..1m x 500mm CnC .
    Tekcel 1200x2400 router , 900 x 600 60w Shenui laser , 1200 x 800 80w Reci tube Shenhui Laser
    6 x longtai lasers 400x600 60w , 1 x longtai 20w fiber
    2x Gravo manual engravers , Roland 540 large format printer/cutter. CLTT setup
    1600mm hot and cold laminator , 3x Dopag resin dispensers , sandblasting setup, acid etcher

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Glenelg, MD
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    12,261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodne Gold View Post
    I've read of foils that adhere to a laser print ..Is there any way I could use this on a CLTT'ed product? Would be great for certificates and the like?
    There's nothing special about the process, Rodney... anything that has toner on it. You lay the foil down over a printed piece, reheat (you're already getting a press, so there ya go), and peel back the foil carrier. Wherever there was toner will now have foil stuck to it. It makes for great accents.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
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    Thanks Dan , that will open up a lot of avenues to me , I assume I can use Hot foiling foils or is there a special type I need?
    Rodney Gold, Toker Bros trophies, Cape Town , South Africa :
    Roland 2300 rotary . 3 x ISEL's ..1m x 500mm CnC .
    Tekcel 1200x2400 router , 900 x 600 60w Shenui laser , 1200 x 800 80w Reci tube Shenhui Laser
    6 x longtai lasers 400x600 60w , 1 x longtai 20w fiber
    2x Gravo manual engravers , Roland 540 large format printer/cutter. CLTT setup
    1600mm hot and cold laminator , 3x Dopag resin dispensers , sandblasting setup, acid etcher

  7. #7
    Rodney

    I have done foils with CLT but not often. It works just fine. The foil I've used has been the laserable kind from Johnson's Plastic. I usually use it for highlights etc .

    The pics are the type of foil though I didn't use CLT on them.

    You can improve durability by post baking or reheating with a heat gun. I would advise that with name tags. There are also shield sprays you can use.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Mike Null; 01-16-2013 at 2:50 PM.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

  8. #8
    I "want" to love CLTT. I really do. I fought and fought and fought it with no luck and little support. I'd talk to Mike and he'd say "I use 40 seconds" and I'd call MT and they'd say "Try 2 1/2 minutes". Well, there's a boat load of difference in 40 seconds and 2 1/2 minutes. The main thing I was trying to do is to do it on rowmark metal finish lasermax. No matter what, it would distort the finish around the edges. Then one day, it hit me. I had a batch of rotary engraving stock with that same finish (thicker cap sheet), and I tried that and they came out perfect. My conclusion was that some cap sheets are too thin or sensitive for the process. Since I switched away from the lasermax, my luck has turned around. I can use other lasermax products, but the metal finish ones cause me great pain.

    I'm getting better at it, but it's been a painful process for me for some reason.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  9. #9
    Dont feel alone Scott I totally gave up on it. Their tech support or lack there of is pathetic to say the least

  10. #10
    Bill, I would have done the same if it wasn't for Mike. I've called him several times about it and he keeps saying "I just put it in, press it, and it's done. No issues". So I kept figuring I was doing something very wrong. When it works, it's awesome. I love it. When it doesn't work.........well........it's not much fun.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  11. #11
    Steve

    That time issue may be due to the 1" foam pad I buy from Joanne Fabrics. It's at least twice as fast as the thick and expensive silicon pad.

    Try doing some transfers on white/black engraving stock and see the colors pop. (the Army plaque above)

    Keep in mind that my printer is the old oil fuser type while I believe the new ones have a toner with fuser. ???

    Bill, Sorry to say that has been my experienced when dealing with them--if they answer their phones. But they are consistent--they've been that way for more than ten years.
    Last edited by Mike Null; 01-16-2013 at 4:28 PM.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    3,922
    The guy I spoke to today said the way to avoid the edges getting distorted was to use an oversize piece of paper on the acrylic or rowmark, he mentioned specifically that if you use paper smaller or exactly the size of the piece you printing on , you see the patch where the paper was and the edge distorts..dunno if that helps? He did say the rowmark does bow when in the heat press after printing , but he lays a weight on it after it comes out the heat press ..will ask him.
    Mike , I was hoping to use the foil on small lettering etc , without cutting , weeding , applying..I also dont think we get that laserfoil over here. Also tons of different finishes in hot foiling foils and they are cheap...perhaps CLTT on darker substrates and then heat fuse a foil on it...dunno....Black anodised with gold lettering without engraving and colour filling ...
    I also want to try waterslide decals and temporary tats...waterslide for curved stuff .. temp tats just for fun...might even try t-shirts , tho its not a market I want to get into.
    The guy I spoke to also said he uses a Hp laserjet 500 and not the more expensive oki , even said he refills his own toner carts , and albeit colours are not always spot on with refills , it works real well.... Price on the Oki does seem expensive , $850... Heat press looks reasonable , its round $1900....the big one MT has. More expensive than their price , but it has to be transported from USA to here. MT CPM paper is round $1.30 a sheet , also more expensive , but available ex stock locally. Has anyone tried the papilio range of CLTT papers?
    Rodney Gold, Toker Bros trophies, Cape Town , South Africa :
    Roland 2300 rotary . 3 x ISEL's ..1m x 500mm CnC .
    Tekcel 1200x2400 router , 900 x 600 60w Shenui laser , 1200 x 800 80w Reci tube Shenhui Laser
    6 x longtai lasers 400x600 60w , 1 x longtai 20w fiber
    2x Gravo manual engravers , Roland 540 large format printer/cutter. CLTT setup
    1600mm hot and cold laminator , 3x Dopag resin dispensers , sandblasting setup, acid etcher

  13. #13
    Rodney, Yes you can add foil color to Certificates etc....I used to use a cheap pouch laminator to do it.

    There is much you can do..... You can use the heat press to do appliques to sweats etc too. Twill USA sells stuff
    that can be laser cut. I'm sure you can find similar things close to you. I have transfered to wood and liked it.
    The issue there is if the wood has a coating on it you have to transfer to a sheet that will cover the wood or
    it will show in the surface. You'll have fun with this and I believe you will find a way to make it profitable!


    Check these guys out for more transfer material, waterslide works great for candles if you do events or such.
    Martin Boekers

    1 - Epilog Radius 25watt laser 1998
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2005
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2007
    1 - Epilog Fusion M2 32 120watt laser with camera 2015
    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
    Zerox Phaser 6360 Laser Printer
    numerous other tools and implements
    of distruction/distraction!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodne Gold View Post
    The guy I spoke to today said the way to avoid the edges getting distorted was to use an oversize piece of paper on the acrylic or rowmark, he mentioned specifically that if you use paper smaller or exactly the size of the piece you printing on , you see the patch where the paper was and the edge distorts..dunno if that helps? He did say the rowmark does bow when in the heat press after printing , but he lays a weight on it after it comes out the heat press ..will ask him.
    Yes, the paper is all the way around. It's often a sheet of 10-12 name tags, all on 1 sheet of printed paper, so it's plenty of overhang on them all. I found a number of things. I bought the 1" foam pad from JoAnne Fabrics. I promptly smoked that pretty good, listening to MT's advice to go up to 340 in temp. I finally just bought the foam pad from MT. It's about 1/4" thick foam. I also backed WAYYYYYY down on my pressure. I'm a lot better at it now than I was 6 months ago. I can actually make product now. Before, it wasn't uncommon to have to make 30 name tags to get an order for 10 completed. Now if I need 2, I can normally take 2 blanks, print 2 images, and get 2 name tags. But it was painful getting there.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  15. #15
    Rodney

    The waterslide decals are excellent though I don't have an application for them. I understand that baking them on makes them dishwasher safe--not sure but worth a try. I've made a lot of t-shirts though I've taken myself out of that business. (here in the US it's very low margin) My heat press is a bit pricy but it's one of those tools that just keeps on ticking--it's an Insta digital pneumatic.

    I have a lot of hot stamp foils and have thought of the application you've mentioned but just haven't had a chance to try it.

    All the thinner plastics will bow--I hand press them on my cutting table or flatten them with a heat gun--it's not a big deal. When making name tags I make an outline 1/8" larger in each direction than the actual tag. That is how I position the pieces. There should be a slight overlap and the printed area should be slightly larger than the name tag. I get a higher margin on these due to the color. As with all printer products you will not be able to promise matches for PMS colors but I can get close.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

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