Post production roubo build thread

[John Donofrio]

Looks good John. With the nut on the inside of the end cap you can't tighten the vise too much. Plus it has tenons to boot. I don't think that will come off unless you want it to.
Thanks for taking the time to post all this I'm sure it is helping many people that aren't speaking up.
Jim

Thanks Jim. My real concern is with using the vise and the future dog holes in the top. There should never be that much force applied so I'm pretty confident they'll hold up but...

[John Donofrio]

The bench is looking sweet!! Thanks for the write up. Seriously. I have started cutting my 2x12s into 4.5" wide boards for the top of my bench. I'll be using all of your posts along the way for sure

Thanks Kurt. I really appreciate this might be of help to someone. Take your time, enjoy the ride and stay safe!

What are your overall dims? Sounds like your shooting for a 4" top.

[Jim Ritter]

Right you are, I totally forgot the dog holes. That will want to push the vise away from the bench.

[Chris Griggs]

Looking Good! I'm enjoying the writeup too. An excellent bench.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

With the Spax brand lag bolts, I'd be surprised if you had any problems - everything I've heard about them has been terrific, even in end grain. If they do appear to begin to lose their grip (as bolting into endgrain is never going to be quite as secure as screwing into face grain - all those threads are biting into short grained sections) you can do what I ended up doing in my bench (after a suggestion here - unfortunately I don't remember who to credit)

Make a hole (from the bottom of the bench top is easier to hide, from the top of the bench is less drilling and might be easier on a finished bench) and insert a dowel so that it intersects the end of the screw hole. Drive in a dowel into the hole, and re-drill the pilot hole before driving the screw. The concept is similar to a bed bolt/bench bolt, and now the end of the screw is holding into face grain and will have much more pull out resistance.

I haven't commented on this thread yet, but thanks for sharing. Your bench looks a lot more well thought out and nice than mine; I don't plan on building a new one anytime soon, but I still get a kick out of these bench build threads. This is a nice one, and I'm really enjoying reading it.

[John Donofrio]

Thanks all for the compliments! They're really appreciated. Makes it all worth it for sure, regardless of the outcome.

So far so good. Got the shelf in tonight and thought I'd show a few pics of it... I know, how exciting. It should be a short one.

It began with some milling to get some material about 1" thick. Then over to the router table to mill some rabbets and grooves.
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The piece on the right shows the area that will be ripped away providing two pieces of cleat that will support the shelf. The rib will sit in a groove that was milled into the stretchers way back when, '73 I think. The shelf boards are all shiplapped and about 5/8 thick because after re-sawing from the 2 by stock and milling flat, that's where they ended up. Several were scrapped since they turned into capital C's off the bandsaw.

A gaggle of shelf parts after a bath. This was after a little chamfering and general cleanup. I didn't sand them though. What, it's a shelf... on a workbench!
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Now we're almost in real time. All the parts were installed.
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And the final product.
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I left about 1/8" gap total across the entire width. That should be enough to absorb any expansion.

I started thinking about the dogholes and began construction of a simple jig. Actually, the doghole thoughts started here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...s-for-dogholes
Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to figure out if the jig will be acceptable or not.

Now the vise liners. Last weekend I stopped by a local upholstery shop and got some suede but that's a story in and of itself. The ending; Is it worth twenny to ya? Think you know the answer.
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It's a really good size piece of fairly heavy suede. Grey with a slight green haze.

Now for the question. I've read that typical yellow glue would work fine but I'm thinking about spray adhesive. I have some 3M Super 7 and 3M General Purpose 45. Acceptable or no?

Thanks again.

[Paul Saffold]

John, I used the 3M gen. purpose on my record vise and yellow glue on my leg vice. Both worked fine. I've been enjoying your build.
Paul

[John Donofrio]

John, I used the 3M gen. purpose on my record vise and yellow glue on my leg vice. Both worked fine. I've been enjoying your build.
Paul

Thanks Paul. I'm going to use it then. The idea being that if the suede ever starts to wear out, it can be replaced. Not sure that will ever be necessary though.

[John Donofrio]

Thanks for the tip Joshua. I hope I never need to but that should certainly work.

[John Donofrio]

It all started several nights ago when a panel like glue-up was done from some of the worthless scrap left over from the rejected top pieces. This was then trimmed square at one end and just trimmed at the other. A fence was screwed to the square end to create this:
2013-01-19_16-45-25_840.jpg (sorry for the blurry pic)

I could only get about halfway through the block even though I had bought a forstner bit extension. With the extension and forstner bit on the drill press, there wasn't enough room to get the chop under the bit, even with the table lowered all the way. An issue with a benchtop drill press I didn't foresee.

The previously useless forstner bit extension came in handy here. Using it and the 3/4" forstner bit, I was able to reach through the 6" chop to mark the underside of the jig for the hole locations. These were then accurately drilled out at the drill press.

4 1/2" doghole spacing was agreed upon by the arguing factions within. Since it was decided long ago that access holes into the legs would not be provided, there are also two rows of holes with 6 3/4" spacing to 'hop' over the leg area of the top. I also made a spacer for the first row off the tail vise.

The drilling commenced:
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After each hole was drilled using the jig, the jig was removed and the hole was completed through the top. Then, using the correct spacer butted up to dogs in the previously drilled holes, the jig was reset to the next row.

The next pic demonstrates why it is important to take your time and think things through. For some reason I felt the need to put the suede liner on the leg vise ASAP. Well this jig will clearly not work with the suede glued to the side of the top. Fortunately, adhering to Paul's reply of my inquiry concerning the use of spray adhesive, I was able to peel off this piece of suede with relative ease. After a little acetone cleaning, I was back to a nice smooth surface for the fence to ride on. As a bonus, the leg vise was used to hold the jig in this area.
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For those who may be wondering, the suede was not coming off without the specific intention of taking it off. The piece was reused.

The finished top:
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I decided on a pattern of every other hole for the back three rows of dogholes with each row alternating. With this configuration a holdfast can reach pretty much anywhere on the top surface. We'll see how it works over time. I can always add more if needed but I doubt it'll be necessary.

Just had to try the dogholes in conjunction with the end vise. Wow! Previously I had no good way to plane a board of this size with such ease. The bench and board didn't even think about moving, no matter how hard I tried to move it with the #4. Me likey!
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This leads me to a question. There's enough room at the left end of the bench for another row of holes but I was thinking about a traditional planing stop there. Good idea or just stick to dogholes and a dog as a planing stop? I've also seen the ones with a flip-up stop at the end of the bench? What do those who have any of these configurations think of them?

What would I do differently next time?
- At this point all I can comment on is the choice of wood for the drilling jig. As mentioned previously, I used some left over scraps of southern yellow pine. This was fine for about half the dogholes but then the jig holes started to get reamed out from the bit due to the softness of the wood. I didn't have any scrap hardwood that I was willing to sacrifice for this use. Next time I would make the sacrifice. Towards the end I was basically centering the bit manually within the jig hole since by this time there was about 1/16" play in each. Not a huge deal but it is worth mentioning.

What wouldn't I do differently next time?
- Although it's a bit pricey, I would definitely use the 3/4" brad point bit from Lee Valley again. I have no vested interest in Lee Valley and I'm not even sure if giving a recommendation like this is legal on this forum. I hope it is since I'm gonna. This bit is incredible. Not only is it razor sharp, the perimeter cutters are long enough and cut clean enough that I was able to get clean exit holes on the bottom of the top without the use of a backer board. Incredible. The trick was this: Once I knew I was close to punching through the bottom of the top, use the high speed setting on the drill and let the drill do the work. I put very little to no downward pressure and the bit would cut a clean exit hole through the bottom. Sweet! Practice it a few times on some scrap and you'll get the feel. The cost of the bit was easily offset by not having to constantly move a backer board. If this is not acceptable, the pilot of the bit is also long enough to provide a location to complete each hole from underneath. This was my original plan but I found the former to be quite acceptable. It left nothing a small chamfer would not clean up. (off to the mailbox to see if the commission check has arrived yet )
- The jig worked very well but as mentioned above, I would use hardwood.
- The cordless drill was fine. It should be said that it is a pretty powerful drill and I did have to let the motor cool down about halfway through the whole process. Other than that, no issues whatsoever using it. I ran through about one and a half batteries. I'm sure it would be a somewhat different story had the top been made of ash or maple so keep that in mind.

Realizing I haven't said anything about the stop gap for the center of the top, I'll give a brief summary. No real magic here since it really boils down to personal preference. I went with one that does have the gaps in the center to hold things like chisels, marking knives, shavings, etc. As is typical, it allows you to flip the stop so one side is flush (or slightly recessed), and when flipped the opposite way provides a planing stop for cross grain work. The jury is still out on the gaps for the tools though. If it doesn't work out between us, a solid one will be fabricated.
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Here I'm just trimming it down so it is slightly recessed when in place. Yet another example of something I would have had no good way to do previously. I'm lovin' it! (sorry McD's) What you can't see in this pic is the two notches that are cut to allow it to set down over the upper stretchers. They are both hidden, one by the leg vise and the other by the anti-marking pad under the holdfast. Does it look familiar?

Next up, the wrap-up post with some completed pics of the new bench AND the old bench. We'll see if you can tell the difference.

[John Donofrio]

It's been a long road to get to this point, even though I've only been posting for a couple of weeks. If you remember from the first post, this thing started back in August of 2012. What follows are some closing comments and pics.

Hindsight would dictate that if I ever do this again, I would post along the way as much as feasible. There was a lot I struggled to remember or remembered later after already posting about it. Plus I now believe that 'posting as you go' would promote taking more relevant pictures along the way. That's something I didn't think about during the majority of the build. I would also use a better camera. The wife and daughter have the nice cameras. I used my cell phone since it was always with me.

It would not be appropriate if I did not acknowledge at least one thread I read. Unfortunately it is on another forum so I cannot post a link but there is a brand of green tools that has a forum... Jim Kirkpatrick has one of the longest threads there I have ever seen and it is very detailed. His bench is beautifully crafted. The thread is a few years old so I never posted anything. There are also many other build threads I read but this was the one that really inspired me to attempt this build. If you ever read this, thanks Jim.

I remember reading about a void one feels when a project of this scope is completed. I now understand.

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And now the old bench.
I can't say too much bad about this bench since it was originally designed when I worked out of the garage. It HAD to be both portable AND multifunctional. It serves those purposes very well. However, it has some serious shortcomings.
- One, it is on casters. Very useful for portability, no so much for anything else. Try using a plane on this bench and you're in for a ride, almost literally. Now, they are double locking casters but they can only do so much. Needless to say, very little planing was done on this bench. In a do over situation with this bench, I would most certainly design in some method of lifting casters so the base could rest solidly on the ground.
- Two, the vise type and placement pretty much render the vise useless for anything but very basic work holding. It's a relatively cheap vise and I got what I paid for. As far as the placement goes, I have to attribute this to my lack of basic work holding knowledge at the time it was built. It could have at least been moved a little forward so the vise was flush to the front allowing basic sawing tasks to be performed.
- Not really a shortcoming but this one concerns the T track all over the place. The original ideas was to use them with compatible clamps as hold downs, kinda like a holdfast would be used. Neh. Doesn't work very well and they're a pain to move and adjust. Not only that, the stuff is expensive in any quantity. No bang for the buck here. The tracks do work very well for the router table fence though.

On the plus side, the storage and router table are fantastic. In fact I still use the router table, the storage, and the top as an assembly table. It's reliably flat. The table legs fold up into the table and the table folds down for storage against the garage wall. Eventually it will be retired back to the garage so the wife can use it in her 'Girl Cave', as she now calls it. A dedicated router table/cabinet will be built and a dedicated assembly table with storage will replace it in it's current location.

I wanted to raise these points in case someone reading this ever has a similar idea for a portable bench. Overall, it really has served me well.

Here it is:
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I think the new one qualifies as an upgrade.

I just have to show these. I debated it but I just have to. It's not really too off topic since it happened in the shop where the bench was being built, right? One night after putting the BLO on the leg vise chop, I decided to attempt a quick repair of a concrete yard decoration my wife wanted to try and save (don't ask). I was also in the process of reconfirming the fridge was working properly (it was). Anyway, it's a rabbit with a small area for a potted plant near the bottom. Well the ears had broken off and she wanted me to epoxy them back on. About two weeks prior, I had brought it into the shop to get it to room temp and for it to dry out. I pulled it off the floor and up onto the (old) bench. I set the ears into place to see how well they fit up and BAM!
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This came crawling up around from the back of the ears just as I pulled my hand off them. I have no idea where it was when I carried the thing up onto the bench. Holy $h#t! It stayed there long enough for me to get this pic, although I never took my eyes off it. I was hoping they don't jump! A few spray cans of insect killer later (well maybe a few sprays worth anyway) and it was posing nicely for the second pic. Fortunately, I keep some insect spray in the shop for wasps during the summer.

I just had to.

One last thing. Attached is the Sketchup model I made to build this bench (had to ZIP it due to the size). Maybe someone will find it useful as a starting point or maybe even use it to build the same bench. Everything, except some of the small details, is what was actually built (groove depth for the deadman is an example). Also, the details for the chain vise are not modeled since the original plan was to use a pin and perforated parallel guide.
Credit for the vise screws goes to others, as well as a few other items. They were downloaded from the 3D Warehouse and those credits are viewable in the model info dialog. Since it's doubtful anyone has the same name as me, the engraved text in the lower short stretchers can easily be deleted since the elements are grouped. I didn't actually do this on the bench as you can see, it was just a thought.

Thanks to all for the comments, tips, compliments and just for reading my jibberish. Hopefully it was both entertaining and informative, even if just a little of one or both. I'm really optimistic that this bench is going to help me both learn and improve working wood with hand tools. Although, quite honestly, I don't ever see myself as being completely old school but who knows. It sure is nice to not fill the air with all that dust, not to mention the noise.

Stay safe in the shop!

John

[Jim Ritter]

Thanks for taking the time to do this posting. I love to see how other people solve their shop problems. I'd love to hear how you like the chain on the leg vise and if anything could be changed.
Jim

[John Donofrio]

Thanks for taking the time to do this posting. I love to see how other people solve their shop problems. I'd love to hear how you like the chain on the leg vise and if anything could be changed.
Jim

Hi Jim,

Quite simply, I love the chain leg vise. As you suggested in an earlier post, I am forgetting about it already. It just works, and works well. Right now I wouldn't change a thing about it but I will be sure to send you a note if something ever creeps into my head.