Contributor
Hi John... Nice installation on the chain. You will forget it is even there. But as to your top, it sounds like you are screwing the top to the strechers, yes? If that is the only attachment you may find the top gets pushed back by the leg vise. If you could fit a loose tenon to that front leg into the top ( it doesn't need to be glued, just a snug fit) it will help keep that edge registered to the front of the leg.
Jim
Ancora Yacht Service
[OP]
Member
Hi Jim,Originally Posted by Jim Ritter
Thanks for the compliment! I'm very happy with the vise.
There are stub tenons on the top of the legs that keep the top from doing just that. I would absolutely agree that without some type of positive stop, the top would just simply get pushed out of the way. The screws alone would be no match for the power of this vise. We'll see how it holds up over time since this is soft wood but right now, I don't see it being a problem. Once I get the suede liners in place, it won't take nearly as much force to keep a piece steady.
Have things settled back to any type of normalcy up your way from the storm?
Contributor
Yes we are on the east end of Long Island and were not hit as badly as near the city. Thanks for asking.
If you mentioned a stub tenon I'm sorry I missed it, but if someone just jumped in like I did I thought I should say something.
Ancora Yacht Service
[OP]
Member
Thanks Ryan. It's been a fun, challenging project. Except for a two story playset I designed and built for my daughter years ago, this is by far the most challenging project I've taken on. The biggest difference here is the accuracy factor. The bench requires just a tad more.
Split top vs solid top. I debated the same thing and using the planer was certainly a factor for me too. You could always run the two halves through and then glue them up as long as mating sides are square to the top surfaces. Be advised that no matter what you do a final flattening will probably need to be done. I haven't gotten to that part yet in the write up but I did have to do it on the top as a whole. I might actually be easier on a solid top but that's just a guess.
The post 'Base meets top' above explains how I got the two halves located accurately to the base. The spacers worked very well. It just took some time clamping, checking the dims, removing, shaving, re-clamping, etc.
As for the two staying coplanar... I'm sure over time it'll have to be re-flattened but that's probably the case no matter what you use. At least that's what seems to be the case from everything I've read. Time will tell here.
One of my biggest concerns with a solid top was maneuvering it around. I'm working with SYP. I couldn't imagine trying to move around a 7' x 1' slab of hardwood let alone one twice as wide.
Good luck and please post as you progress. I now wish I would have as I progressed instead of waiting until I was almost done.
Member
Thanks for the thoughts. I'll keep stewing on it. I better start working out to get ready for moving around all that maple
It's funny you also built a play set for the kids. I did one a few years back as well: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...Indoor-Playset
Do you have any pics of yours?
[OP]
Member
Ryan, Nice job on the playset! I like the indoor concept. Mine was strictly outdoor. It was used by many kids over several years and was eventually sold to a friend for his boys to abuse. I believe it's still in use today.Thanks for the thoughts. I'll keep stewing on it. I better start working out to get ready for moving around all that maple
It's funny you also built a play set for the kids. I did one a few years back as well: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...Indoor-Playset
Do you have any pics of yours?
P3260166.jpg
Absolutely not. SOP in my opinion. (Can we keep that quite please, you know... The wife might hear)
[OP]
Member
Since I couldn't fit in the roller guide for the leg vise in the last entry, I'll cover it now. Unfortunately, the only pic I have is of it nearly completed. I also took one tonight of it mounted.
I wasn't sure how I was going to tackle this one so I started with a significantly larger block of wood than the roller actually is. It's easier to work with but more importantly, it's much safer. The block was squared up on all sides and yet more careful layout was done although it's a roller guide, not a turbine blade. As long as it can be attached to the leg and the wheel secured, it'll be ok. Quite honestly, I'm not even sure it's required. The leg vise ran pretty smooth without it but not quite as with it.
Before I continue, it should be mentioned that before the BLO was put on the leg assembly that hosts the leg vise, the layout for the tapped holes in the leg was done. A small jig was created and clamped to the leg as a drilling guide. Holes were drilled to appropriate size and depth then they were tapped. Prior, a test tapping was done in a scrap block of wood to make sure there would be reasonable holding power. I was very surprised since this was a tapped hole in soft southern yellow pine. I really think I could've kept cranking down on the cap screws to basically draw the washer into the block of wood, crushing the fibers below. Either way, I was convinced there was enough strength to hold the roller to the leg. I had read where some use CA glue to 'harden' the threads and this was my plan had the threads failed in the test. No CA glue for you! As a precaution though, after the roller was finished I added some 220 grit self adhesive sandpaper on the back to keep it from wanting to slide downward. Think we're good.
First the hole for the wheel axle was drilled. It was kept accurate at the drill press. It was also a good time to drill the small hole for the set screw. More tapping into the wood but a much different situation. No worries here. In fact, I used the set screw itself to manufacture the threads.
Onto the slot for the cap screws. A straight bit on the router table took care of that. Since the longest bit I have would not go through the whole block, multiple stopped passes were made from each side. Just be sure to flip the piece end for end length wise instead of 'rolling' it over.
The next order of business was to create the slot the wheel sits in. This was done with the piece clamped vertically against a fenced miter gauge on the TS. The dado stack was installed and the cuts progressed. Three passes for the width at three different depths. I would do this differently next time. My dado stack is of medium quality at best so these end grain cuts tended to burn with each pass. It was smelling pretty bad in the shop after this procedure. It's also possible the blades/chippers are dulling. They were freshly cleaned however. Lessening the width of the stack might help although I was far from maximum. If I remember correctly, the stack was 3/8" but I really don't remember. Another option would be to just use your best TS blade and make several passes. Of course, this being a neander forum, saws and chisels are always acceptable, if not preferred.
A bit of shaping at the band saw and out comes a rough roller guide. Since there's no drum sander in the shop, not counting the short ones that go on the drill press, I took to hand sanding the entire piece along with some rasping. Here's the result attached to the test hole I mentioned earlier.
2012-12-02_17-00-29_621.jpg
I was not looking forward to making this piece but it came out well.
The action pic from tonight...
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The sliding deadman(shhh). Oh, that's what it's actually called? I get it now.
Once again, I didn't take as many pics as I now wish I had but again I took one of the completed system tonight.
Bottom line is this; a groove in the bottom of the top, a track for the deadman to ride on, and a way to get it off the bench should the need arise. We'll start with the groove in the bottom of the top because, well that's where it starts.
This is the best pic I have that shows the groove. You can see it on the right of the shot. Also visible are the mortises for the legs as well as some of the work for the end vise but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
2012-12-26_14-55-02_461.jpg
The outside edge of the groove is 7/8" away from the edge of the top, 1" deep and 3/4" wide. It runs the full distance between the front legs. The groove was originally designed as 9/16" deep but it changed on the fly. The original concern was that the outer wall of the groove would be weak if it was too deep. Nonsense. There no real force pushing the deadman outward, or at least there shouldn't be. I wanted a little more 'tongue' on the deadman and so decided to go deeper with the groove. It's probably fine either way.
A router, straight bit and edge guide attachment was used to cut the groove. Even if I thought I could make this with a hand plane, I do not have needed handplane in my small arsenal of handplanes. I'm told there's a hidden sickness regarding this and I have had a cough lately. The ends of the groove were squared up with chisels then the base and top reassembled.
Onto the deadman itself. A friend of mine was generous enough to offer up an old red oak stair tread from a mill that was torn down. He has several and was willing to part with one for future help in the shop. A very fair trade indeed! After milling it flat, I had a 1 7/8" thick solid board about 4 feet long. This worked out excellent as I was planning on gluing up a slab from some HD red oak boards laying around. It was also long enough to rip off the 90 degree track the deadman rides on. Sweet. This made the width of the track the exact thickness of the deadman making the layout and alignment easier.
As usual, it started with a squared up block of wood then the layout for the final shape and dogholes was made.
Now for the 45 degree innie cuts at the bottom. Once again, to the table saw. No dado here, that would be silly, just a tilted blade. With the peak of the blade height set to the center of the thickness of the piece, I lined up the piece to the layout marks and slid it across the saw with a fenced miter gauge. Flip it. Repeat. Done.
The goal, for me anyway, was to minimize the gap between the deadman and the bench top. I just don't like the look of having a large gap there. To alleviate this gap, the track was made next by simply ripping a 45 on each face of the remainder of the oak board, longways. The resultant 90 was then ripped away from the board, cut to length and attached to the long stretcher with countersunk screws. The front 45 degree edge was kept flush to the front of the stretcher. The deadman's 90 degree groove could now rest on the track but at a leaning forward angle. This allowed for a 'close enough' mark for cutting the tongue.
The track was then removed and a thin kerf handsaw was used to cut the track on the left end nearest the leg vise. The cutoff being a little wider than the deadman. This is the exit area should the deadman decide to roam free. The long piece of track was returned to the stretcher. The short piece will be returned later.
Back at the TS with the stacked dado and fenced miter gauge, this time to rough out the tongue on the top of the deadman. Take off a little less than you think so you can sneak up on the final fit. The gap at the front and top ended up in the <1/16" area. A little play is needed for it to slide smoothly. The tongue is about 3/4" long.
Does it fit? Careful use of the shoulder plane gave a nice sliding fit. Some slop was intentionally left on the backside, again probably about 1/16" but the front side is dead flush with the front of the leg and bench top which is what matters. The slop helps to remove the deadman and allows it to slide easily.
Before final shaping the deadman, don't forget to drill the holes unless you just want a sliding board on your bench. Two holes at a time was about all I could drill before having to wait for the bit to cool down. After nearly burning up a 3/4" forstner bit the end of this stage was near. A couple cuts on the band saw then it's off to [drum roll sound] THE WORKBENCH! My first use of the leg vise. It was a pleasure. Some rasping, scraping and sanding. Also, some dust relief was added to the ends of the bottom track at the ends. Track pieces + deadman + BLO = done. Oh, and wax on the contact parts after the BLO dried helped too. It slides nice.
These are the best pics I have, the second one being taken tonight:
2012-12-19_21-01-53_433.jpg2013-01-15_20-26-22_466.jpg
These posts seem to keep getting longer but I'm trying to hit on all the major points. Hopefully it's not putting anyone to sleep. Finishing the top, the twin screw tail vise, and the bottom shelf is all that's left. Oh, how could I forget the dogholes in the top. They'll be last. In fact I'll probably be caught up by then. Should be wrapped in about fifty posts or so...
Kidding.
Member
Hi John, Thanks for sharing your build. I'm enjoying the progress and partially into my own build. I was wondering how far your top overhangs on the right-hand (non-leg vise) side?
[OP]
Member
Phillip, the right side overhang is about 12 1/2". The original design had it at exactly 12" but since I had extra material when I cut the top, the extra 1/2" was added as a safety factor.
The screws for the twin screw are 16 1/2" from the back of the thrust plate to the end of the screw. The chop and end cap are 5" thick together so I needed a minimum of 11 1/2" but that's just cutting it too close (intended). With the extra 1/2" that was added during the build, there's about 1" between the screw ends and the top stretcher so I'm sure the original 12" would have been fine.
Good luck with your build. Posting anything?
Member
Thanks, John. I'm doing a large part of my build via hand tools - surfacing and dimensioning - but using my band saw whenever I can. I don't have a jointer, planer, or table saw, which slows things down quite bit. My shop time is also limited, so this is talking a long time. I'm making the bench out of Hard Maple, based closely on the Lie Nielsen design. Any pics will be farther down the road.Phillip, the right side overhang is about 12 1/2". The original design had it at exactly 12" but since I had extra material when I cut the top, the extra 1/2" was added as a safety factor.
The screws for the twin screw are 16 1/2" from the back of the thrust plate to the end of the screw. The chop and end cap are 5" thick together so I needed a minimum of 11 1/2" but that's just cutting it too close (intended
Good luck with your build. Posting anything?
[OP]
Member
It was almost time to cut the top. But first I decided to attach the top to the base and do the flattening of the two slabs as a whole. Since I had tons of experience doing this, about two hours lifetime worth from the initial flattening, I forged ahead. A brief description of what I had to deal with.
It wasn't too bad but when I laid a reliable straight edge across the entire top width wise, I was seeing a pretty consistent 1/32 gap in the middle. I wasn't sure why. When I put winding sticks along different points of the top length wise, it looked really good, maybe an ever-so-slight twist. At first I thought the planer blades might be slightly out of parallel to the planer bed. But since I ran the two halves through the planer in the same direction, what I was seeing didn't make sense. Regardless of why, it needed flattened.
This time I remembered to create a chamfer on the exit side of the strokes BEFORE starting. Learning progress! (although I still got some blowout on the edges) Using the same methods as before, the tried and true ones described in this community and elsewhere, I proceeded to make shavings using a freshly tuned #7 picked up from most folks' favorite auction site. First came some lumber crayon artwork around the entire top. Then strokes directly across the grain the entire length of the top until the the crayon was gone. After renewing the scribble, diagonal strokes in one direction and then the opposite were taken. The straight edge and winding sticks were rechecked between each step and several times during them. A few passes the length of the top with the grain and after an hour or so, I was happy with the flatness of the top.
2012-12-22_17-04-12_794.jpg
It's worth noting that during this whole process the bench never, or barely moved. This was in spite of the fact that I still had it sitting on some thin boards to keep the feet off the concrete. I did this to give the BLO in the end grain of the feet plenty of time to fully dry. Not sure if this was necessary or not but regardless, the bench is solid!
Now, it really was time to cut the top. This wasn't really a point of concern for me. It was an absolute fear. If I mess up now, it's back to basket weaving, no I meant car chasing. Whatever. The left end was less of a concern since there was nothing attached to it. The right was a whole 'nuther thing. If it's not square and plumb, the tail vise will not be square and plumb. As simple as that. Scary.
Fortunately, the top was significantly oversize which was intentional. I started with roughly seven foot long boards for the top but only needed about six. There were several reasons but the main ones are:
- The ability to cut off snipe from the thickness planer, if any.
- The ability to move boards left or right to put flaws (knots, cracks, etc.) outside the cut zone.
- Simple but true. Fourteen foot boards divided in half make seven foot boards. Hey, it made the list.
The latter point also applied to the two top halves as individual wholes. Had the need been there, I could have slid either top half in either direction by several inches and still had enough to hit my target top length. Had this been a more expensive wood, I may not have intended to have that much waste. SYP is cheap. At least it is here.
So there was plenty extra on the top to do a practice cut, or two if needed. That's what I did. I ran through the drill to see how it would go. Once a straight edge was secured square to the top, I used my trusty old circ saw (by old, I mean probably 20+ years) and a good blade to cut the top in multiple passes until I could cut no deeper. This left maybe a half inch of top holding the cutoff. This was hand cut a little proud and the remarkable 60 1/2 was used to clean it up.
I considered it a success but was still not convinced it would be accurate enough for the end cap, which also happens to be the all important mounting point and inner jaw of the twin screw vise. It was decided that this was fine for use on the left end, which would be cut after the right side while mated to the base.
What I ended up doing was using router with a straight edge guide. Not one attached to the router, but one where you use the router itself to actually trim the straight edge to the exact width of the router base. This would also eliminate the possibility of tearing up the top with the circ saw. The circ saw was still used to cut the top to within 1/4" or so of the target line. Remember to leave enough for the stub tenon on the end! Fortunately I remembered this before making the first cut but not before setting up for the first cut. Cut, cut, cut, saw, saw. A large chunk of the top that took so much effort to assemble broke free.
This pic shows the right end of the top, now removed from the base and the two halves clamped together. This is where the router work was done.
2012-12-26_14-54-49_845.jpg
You can also see the grooves for the screw clearance. The screws are centered on the bottom of the top slab so these are kinda important. There's also a shallow depression in the roof of these grooves to allow room for slide plates (don't remember what Veritas called them in the instructions, but they made sense so I included them). These depressions are about 1/8" deep with the intention of placing 1/4" thick slide plates made from UHMW for the screws to ride on. I ended up using some thin red oak scraps milled to give a nice fit.
Once all the routing was satisfactory the bench was reassembled.
Now to finalize the tenon for the end cap. Removing the waste along the tenon was done with a wood mallet and chisel. That is until my repaired mallet re-broke. It's initial demise happened when the Steelers turned the ball over 8 times against the Browns. OUCH. For both the Steelers and the mallet. That taught me it was never meant to handle a full swing into a chunk of wood. It also taught me the season was in serious jeopardy. From then on I used a small hammer and chisel and entered the market for a new mallet.
Stage 1:
2012-12-27_12-15-03_226.jpg You can see the results from an overzealous blow to the chisel on the left. Fortunately, defining the edge first saved this from being a visible, ugly scar on the front edge.
Stage 2:
2012-12-27_14-22-38_45.jpg A repair from a small blowout at the top of the groove. Not really necessary but hey, it's my bench!
Stage 3:
2012-12-27_22-17-50_480.jpg
The end cap and chop were milled square from another glue-up the same as before. Final thickness: 2 1/2". Each is 6" high. They started slightly oversize so once things were lined up to the bench, they could be cut and trimmed to final size.
After some more careful layout on the end cap, the mortises were created same as before. Use cut lines to define them, chisel a shallow depth around the perimeter and then freehand route to depth. Clean up the walls with chisels.
After some paring and shoulder plane work, there was a nice tight fit. Not too tight, just to the point where a few taps of the palm would seat the end cap. Now is a good time to mention that the mortises are slightly wider than the stub tenons. But only on the walls towards the inside of the top providing about 1/16" expansion room each. The arrows in the Stage 3 pic above show where this happens. The plan is to have the top grow towards the middle from both directions as it expands. If the top halves shrink, the vise jaws may become slightly proud of the top on the front and/or back. Hopefully 1/16" is enough but I'm sure I'll know eventually.
Next were holes and mortises for the screw nuts. With the end cap in place, I made sure the centerlines for the screws lined up with the centerlines of the groove. All good here. Then a line was traced around the groove on the back of the end cap. This allowed me to confirm the top of the screw would have ample room and would not hit the underside of the top. Since I made the groove slightly deeper I was confident this would check out and it did. The slide plates will take up the slack.
Can't fit anymore pics here so I'll finish this part in another post.
[OP]
Member
I wish I had the courage and the tools to attempt this by hand. I'll just have to keep building projects to get the tools the build the courage to build the project. Keep us informed.
[OP]
Member
Same as the screw nut in the left front leg, the two screw nuts were mounted into the back of the end cap. A word of caution: Take good care to make sure the two nuts are installed parallel to each other. If they are toed in or out at all, the screws will bind. I used a router (of course) to keep the bottom of the mortise as flat and true as possible. It payed off.
This was the result:
2012-12-30_22-30-20_280.jpg
Now for the chop. With the other block of similar dimension, the center of the screw holes were laid out and drilled. After mounting the end cap, the two screws were fed through the holes in the chop and threaded into the screw nuts. The two pieces were clamped together vertically and cinched down so marks and holes could be made for the thrust plates. The included lag bolts and washers were then used to attach the chop to the screws.
The first look at the vise on the bench. The end cap and chop were still oversize as you can (hopefully) see. They were also kept about a little proud of the top and will be planed flush later.
2012-12-30_18-05-29_156.jpg
Back at the drill press, the 3/4" dogholes were drilled. I could only get about halfway through the block even though I had bought a forstner bit extension. With the extension and forstner bit on the drill press, there wasn't enough room to get the chop under the bit, even with the table lowered all the way. An issue with a benchtop drill press I didn't foresee. From the flip side of the chop, 1 1/8" holes were drilled to meet up to the 3/4" holes. One was slightly off center but oh well. A round over on the chop ends was added then the vise was reassembled.
2013-01-01_18-50-10_714.jpg This is when I was comfortable with the fit so the final sizing of the two pieces was completed and top of the vise was shaved down flush. The same was done over at the leg vise.
The final stages of putting the vise together really consist on just connectiong the chain (after shortening it a little in my case) and adding the chain cover. Oh, you'll probably want some handles too. I had to shorten the cover a little to get it to fit but the dremel and a cutting wheel made easy work of it.
The finished vise:
2013-01-02_21-05-31_955.jpg2013-01-02_21-05-57_96.jpg
Here's one more pic I'd like to share. I'm also curious as to what others thoughts might be.
2013-01-04_20-00-31_982.jpg
This shows how the end cap is attached to the bench top which also means the way the entire vise is attached to the bench. These are 5/16" x 6" Spax screws. Three into each half. The two holes through the end cap nearest the center for each half are a bit oversize for expansion purposes. Once again, only time will tell if I got it right. One thing I am pretty confident about is the holding power of these screws. I think that if they were to ever be pulled loose from the top, there has obviously been WAY TOO MUCH force placed on the vise. I think the shear pins in the vise would give first. I know this is far from tradition but I really wanted to be able to break down the bench.
Just a little ways to go. Onto the shelf. No big deal there but I'm on a roll so I'll cover it. This actually brings me up to date since the shelf pieces are sitting on the old bench as the BLO that was applied Last night dries.
Contributor
Looks good John. With the nut on the inside of the end cap you can't tighten the vise too much. Plus it has tenons to boot. I don't think that will come off unless you want it to.
Thanks for taking the time to post all this I'm sure it is helping many people that aren't speaking up.
Jim
Ancora Yacht Service
Member
The bench is looking sweet!! Thanks for the write up. Seriously. I have started cutting my 2x12s into 4.5" wide boards for the top of my bench. I'll be using all of your posts along the way for sure
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