Post production roubo build thread

[John Donofrio]

Yes, another bench build thread. Now that the build is almost complete, I figure I have no excuse but to post some pics, lessons learned and general observations from an amateurs perspective. Here goes...

Some general info:
Material: SYP
Top Length: ~77" (including closed tail vise jaws)
Top Thickness: 3"
Width: 24"
Height: 32"

Hardware:
Leg Vise:

Chop Material: SYP
Chop Thickenss: 2 1/2"
Screw: LV Tail Vise Screw
Alignment: Anchora Yacht Service Chain Vise

Tail Vise:

Material: SYP (end cap and jaw)
Thickness: 2 1/2" (end cap and jaw)
Screw: Veritas Twin Screw Vise
End Cap Fasteners: (6) 5/16" x 6" Spax

General:
I used the bench bolts and roller hardware from Benchcrafted.

I started this project back in August. The idea was to have a 'real' bench for the winter months so I could work on a couple projects before spring. One being a replacement arbor for the one that surprisingly made it through this past summer. I wish I had kept track of the countless bench build threads I read on both this and other forums. They were (and are) indispensable. Also indispensible; The Schwarz's bench books. As most already know they contain tons of good information. I read both.

I went to a local lumber yard to select the SYP. I wanted to use ash but it was simply too expensive and I was somewhat too impatient to keep shopping. Besides, I figured if the SYP turned out to be worthless, I'd have another fun (I think) project ahead in the future. At a minimum, I know I could replace the top with something more durable if the need arises. One advantage of the SYP I figure is that it is less likely to 'ding' a crisp workpiece if, when actually, it is dropped or slammed into the bench. A plus I hope. Here's the first load:

2012-08-11_19-59-03_827.jpg

I was pretty disappointed with the selection but I pressed on. I bought (6) 2x12x14's.

That turned into this:
2012-09-01_19-38-10_843.jpg

I quickly realized I would need more after getting to this point. Some of this stuff had so much stress in it that it warped well beyond use for the top, which I focused on first for material. One piece I was ripping actually bogged down and probably would have stopped a 3hp cabinet saw had I not killed it. Scary stuff for sure. Just about the equivalent of one 2x12x14 board was junk, at least as far as the top goes. I ended up using the band saw to rip them to rough width after breaking them in half with a circ saw. I still love electrons!

This was second load to replace the junk (the boards in the forefront). These were 2x12x8's from the local HD. I spent a couple hours picking through every one they had and actually found several gems. Nearly knot free and much tighter grain than the boards I had bough from the lumberyard. Of course, these boards were the exception.
2012-09-02_18-29-24_852.jpg

I'll pick up with the glue up of the parts soon.

[John Donofrio]

After getting enough acceptable material for the top, I proceeded to rough out the remaining pieces for the legs and stretchers. Actually, this is somewhat out of order since I used quite a bit of the first load to rough out the 'non-top' pieces. You can see the other pieces in the second load pic from the last post. This was mostly due to working around knots and cup/twist etc. As previously stated, the second load was much better SYP. That being said, just last night while roughing out pieces for the lower shelf from 'the good stuff', I had a piece I was cross cutting literally jam the miter saw.
2013-01-08_18-53-38_585.jpg
Luckily I was able to get the blade off the saw whilst the board was permanently attached to it. The split top came in handy here. Clamped it to the table and hand cut a kerf up to the blade thereby releasing it. Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

I glued up the legs first, two at a time:
2012-09-06_21-30-47_541.jpg

The stretchers came next in pretty much the same fashion. This was the result:
2012-09-23_14-50-51_17.jpg

Now for the top. The scary sharp, uh top. I started with three boards at a time using TBIII. I figured I could handle that much at once using a roller. While the first glue up had me sweating, I was able to pull it off and the rest went more smoothly. A word of caution to those who will be attempting this and have never done a glue up like this... PLAN. PLAN SOME MORE. Take a break and then go through it AGAIN. Have clamps ready, towels, rollers, a helper. Just plan it.

I glued up each section of three first, 6 total for both top halves. Then I enlisted a helper, my better half, for the final glue up of each half. The reason was not because of the number of wet joints, there were still only two, but simply because throwing around 7 foot long sections is not as easy once they start to thicken. She was there to help me line them up and keep them from sliding around as I rolled the glue on the second joint. The latter was a problem I did not foresee so having help there certainly paid off. It would have been a complete debacle otherwise.

Began with this:
2012-09-23_14-51-02_623.jpg(These were ripped to the the same near final width before glue up began)

Did this (6 times):
2012-10-06_18-04-42_989.jpg

Then, with help, did this (twice):
2012-10-13_18-58-55_209.jpg

I forgot to note that per others' recommendation, authors included, I wiped each glue surface down with acetone prior to applying the glue. I'd let it sit for 10 minutes or so to let the acetone evaporate and then go to work. I also let each clamp up sit under pressure for at least 5hrs. Usually over night since it just worked out that way.

After all the sweating, I ended up with two ~7' long, 11 1/8" wide and ~3 1/16 thick slabs of SYP that were pretty flat. As flat as I could have hoped for at least. I was happy.

[EDIT] I forgot to mention an important aspect of the top glue-up. Make sure to do your best to orient the boards so the grain is running in the same direction. Really this applies to all the glue-ups but especially for the top. This will make your job much easier when doing the final flattening. I did my best here but, as those who have used SYP know, this stuff has really wacky grain. Very roller coaster like so I knew going in I would have tear-out when I ran my planes across it.

[John Donofrio]

Maybe one of the admins can chime in here.

I am building this bench in the hopes it will promote and help me learn more neander techniques but I must confess that it was and is being build primarily (but not completely) using more of the less environmentally friendly methods. Should this thread be moved to another section of the community such as 'General Woodworking and Power Tools'? I don't wanna step outta line before I reach the front and get the prize, whatever that means.

Thoughts before I continue on?

[Kurt Cady]

Hey, sweet looking bench

[Adam Cruea]

Maybe one of the admins can chime in here.

I am building this bench in the hopes it will promote and help me learn more neander techniques but I must confess that it was and is being build primarily (but not completely) using more of the less environmentally friendly methods. Should this thread be moved to another section of the community such as 'General Woodworking and Power Tools'? I don't wanna step outta line before I reach the front and get the prize, whatever that means.

Thoughts before I continue on?

What I've seen you use power tools on thus far doesn't necessarily disqualify you from posting here.

It does, in my opinion, qualify you as halfway sane. I can say from experience that building a bench completely by hand is very time consuming. I've been on mine since August or September and finally got to gluing the top up (granted, I had a month in there where I was useless because of an infection that knocked me on my butt and I also work 8 hours a day and commute 2).

[edit]And also, may I suggest on a next build, start with your bottom first so that you can use that to support your top when it goes to glue up.

[John Donofrio]

At this point I decided to ready the top a bit. I tried to find someone with a surface jointer large enough but didn't have any luck. However, I did find out that the local Woodworkers Guild has one, a 14" monster, (as well as some other industrial strength machines) but I'm not a member yet. My plan was to get one side flat and then run the slabs through my thickness planer. I ended up realizing this was the perfect time to attempt to flatten something by hand. Yes, by hand (hold the applause please). I wasn't terribly excited over this since I was afraid I might turn the slabs into large toothpicks but as it turns out, it wasn't all that difficult. I followed the tried and true methods as described by many here as well as in the books I had read. Took my time, used winding sticks, a straight edge, lumber crayon and a glazed donut, to go. It worked out pretty well although I was a bit wore out since the bench (the TS outfeed table) I used was a bit high for handplaning. Now I'm sure someone who is more skilled than I could've done it quicker and better but I was happy with the result. I felt comfortable I had a reasonably flat surface to mate with the soon to be base. I knew I had a final flattening ahead once it all came together, but this was a good start. Yet another reason to do this step by hand since I was aware the two halves would have to be flattened as one once they were mounted to the base. I now had some experience under my belt. About two hours worth.

I pulled out the #5 and went to town. Do not forget to run a small chamfer on the exit side of the strokes! A point I quickly remembered once I got started.
2012-10-18_19-39-05_325.jpg

See I told ya it was flat. I'm absolutely positive you can tell how flat this is without anything such as winding sticks or straight edges. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I took this. Probably because I was proud of myself or something like that.
2012-10-18_19-39-33_107.jpg


Once I was satisfied one surface was flat, I setup a rig with the thickness planer. I was a bit concerned that it would have trouble pulling the piece through but it was a non-issue. Remember the grain direction! I ended up with two slabs that were consistently 3 3/64" thk. Enough left over to hit my target 3" thick top (I hoped anyway). I stated in an earlier post that my initial glue-up of the top yielded two 3 1/16" thick slabs. They were actually more like 3 1/8".
2012-10-21_12-59-12_14.jpg2012-10-21_12-58-39_278.jpg In the first pic you can see the 'junk' leaning in the background from the first load of lumber that was completely unusable for the top. It'll probably get sequestered to the fire pit burn pile once this project is done.


The end result of all the labor to this point. It was time to make sure the fridge was working. It was working, well!
2012-10-21_13-48-48_404.jpg2012-10-25_20-39-14_426.jpg

Now onto the base. Some suggest the base should be done first so there is a surface to use once the top reaches this point. I would agree now but the sawhorses did just fine once they were leveled out.

[Kurt Cady]

I bet it turns out pretty nice! How do you know which direction the grain is going, the tops of all of your boards for the tips look like straight grain?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't know, I built my bench top first. That way, I could attach the top to my sawhorses, and have a surface large enough to build the base on. I think it can really go either way, and depends on what you've got for work surfaces all ready.

[John Donofrio]

How do you know which direction the grain is going, the tops of all of your boards for the tips look like straight grain?

Take a look at this pic
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...8&d=1357843327

You can see the grain rising away from the cut (the side of the slab). If the grain were sloping the opposite way, the blade would be able to 'lift' the wood fibers thereby causing almost certain tearout. This applies whether it is a machine or handplane. Having a sharp blade and taking light cuts can help but are certainly no guarantee. Lowering the angle of the cut, such as with a low angle jack plane, can also help.

Check out this link for some more info
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ion-of-the-day

[Scott M Perry]

Great job surfacing that slab, but -2 on the Diamond Dave reference...

[John Donofrio]

After re-reading it, I couldn't agree more

[John Donofrio]

Now for the base. I wish I had taken more pics here. I just didn't think to stop for pics as I moved along at this point. I'll do my best to explain the steps.

As shown in a previous post, I now had two large slabs of wood and a bunch of sticks, well comparatively speaking. The target size for the legs was 5"x3 3/4" and the stretchers was 4"x2". I was able to hit both sizes using a combination of hand and power tools. The next step was to cut the legs and stretchers to final length which I did at the chop saw. After setting up a rig at the station to cut accurate lengths consistently, the stretchers were done. Easy. The legs were a different story. They are too large for the 10" chop saw to cut all the way through. I debated on attempting to hand saw them but I do not have a quality saw. Nor have I the ability to hand saw accurately enough for something I wanted to be accurate. I used the chop saw to make a cut through as much of the leg as I could. I then hand sawed of the remaining waste, leaving the cut a little proud. Using a sharp block plane, I smoothed out the end grain. It went well, just took some time.

Now for the mortises. I don't have pics of the legs as the mortising progressed so I've attached a Sketchup pic. I suppose I haven't mentioned I worked from a Sketchup model to keep things straight. It really helped plus it allowed me to prove out my design before cutting any wood.

Here's the left front leg:
LF Leg_Dims.jpg I printed out one of these for each leg and worked to the drawing.

After careful layout I used the drill press with forstner bits to hog out the majority of the material. Note here that it is critical to check your layout. I caught myself several times laying out a mortise on the wrong side or in the wrong location. Check and double check before making any cuts. It saved me a few times.

Since I don't have mortising chisels, I didn't see any other way. Besides that, it would've taken me forever to remove that much waste and the quality would've undoubtedly been less than ideal with my chiseling prowess.

Once I had most of the material gone, I chiseled and pared the holes square and smoothed out the walls. This took quite a while but I was happy with the result. Take your time here. You really want a good fit with the stretcher tenons.

Next was to fit the stretcher tenons to the leg mortises. I roughed them out with TS and a dado stack and then used a block and shoulder plane to get a nice friction fit. Alls well at this point.

A dry fit. This pic shows the two leg assemblies that were complete at this point. I do not have pics of process but I did use draw bored pegs (2) in each tenon. It was my first time doing that but it went smoothly. I did get a little bit of hole ream-out (if that makes sense) when the pegs were driven in, but I kinda expected it since the legs are SYP (soft) and the pegs are red oak (hard). It's not bad though. I had to remember, it's a workbench. I also glued these joints.
[EDIT] This pic is actually a true dry fit of all the parts. Notice the stub tenons on the top of the legs are not cut yet. After this pic was taken, I completed the leg assemblies.
2012-11-22_12-37-09_374.jpg

Now onto the long stretchers and the bench bolts. This was one area I had been stressing over for some time. I was worried that the 1/2" x 12" auger bit would wonder radically from the center of the stretcher. If it wanders too far, I'd have trouble lining up the nut from the inside of the stretcher. Since I used the drill press for the counter bored hole through the leg and into the bottom of the mortise, I knew that would at least give me an accurate guide for the bit to follow. I clamped the base up similar to what is shown in the pic above except I used a clamp above and below the stretcher.

Once making sure the whole assembly was attached solidly to my TS out feed table, I drilled to a depth of about 1" deeper than the bench bolts are long. The drilling went well except I still didn't know if the holes were true. To figure out where to make the counter bores on the inside of the stretcher for the bench bolt nuts, I made a small fixture consisting of nothing more than a block of wood and two dowels. I wish I could remember where I read about this technique. Just know that credit is due elsewhere.

On the drill press, drill two holes in the block of wood spaced far enough apart so that a dowel in each hole will allow you to slide one dowel into the stretcher hole while the other dowel allows you to see the path of the hole inside the stretcher. It is important that these two holes be accurately parallel or the purpose will be defeated. I hope this makes sense. I do not have any pics of it. Regardless, it worked pretty well. Using this, I determined about where to counter bore for the nuts. At first I was confident I could hit the mark so I drilled the first counter bore the size of the nut, 1". This gave pretty much no play to allow the bolt to find and grab the nut. I re-drilled the counter bore to about 1/4" oversized and that worked well.

This was the result:
2012-11-23_14-34-42_99.jpg2012-11-23_14-34-56_411.jpg
Note here you can see the draw bore pegs but barely since there is still no finish yet. This was the first point when I really felt like I was making good progress which probably explains the lack of pics. All the milling and fitting and gluing had taken a bit of a toll on me. This was reinvigorating.

Think this one is long enough. I'll pick up with some pics of the vises coming together.

[John Donofrio]

I next needed to mate the top to the base. In order to get everything to line up properly, I milled two spacers out of a few pieces of scrap that were the thickness of the gap I needed. I roughed them close and then kept taking thin shavings until the overall width of the clamped top matched the width of the base. 24" was my target and I hit it for all intents and purposes. It may be 1/64 or so wider but, hey, who's counting. I don't have a pic of it at this stage but once the top and base matched width wise, I traced a line around the stub tenons on the underside of the top. Using these marks, lines were cut with a marking gauge parallel to the length of the top and lines were cut perpendicular to the length using a square and marking knife. I chiseled out the perimeter of each mortise to about 1/16 or so deep. This gave me a nice 'stay away' area for the next step.

I resorted back to my electrical friends and used a router and straight bit set to about 1/16" deeper than the stub tenons were long to hog out the majority of the mortise waste. About 1 1/16" deep in multiple passes. I did this by eye only, staying away from the cuts I made previously. Chisels were then used to clean up the mortise sides. I was sure there would be multiple attempts in sizing the mortises but it dropped right in on the first try. This scared me! It turned out the fit was good. There is a very small amount of play but nothing that should affect the performance of the bench. Whew. Once again, I think we're in the 64'th arena. It needs said again. Take your time and things will [should] work out.

Here's the base sitting on the top:
2012-12-08_20-35-25_479.jpg2012-12-08_20-35-36_439.jpg

And the bench on the floor:
2012-12-09_14-45-50_578.jpg2012-12-09_14-46-02_627.jpg

Another real sign of progress! It looks like a bench.

In the last post I mentioned I completed the leg assemblies but forgot to mention the pre-work that needed done for the leg vise. Using the screw nut as a template, the holes for the leg vise screw were drilled and the back of the leg was mortised for the nut to sit in. At this point the layout for the chain sprocket was addressed. Following the instructions Jim provides with the chain drive, the holes and mortise for the sprocket were cut with the drill press and router. This was another part I was concerned about. If the sprocket was not square to the leg, it may not work properly. It turned out to be much easier than I thought. Another unwarranted stressful situation but this is good. It needs said again, well maybe not but I'm gonna anyway. Take your time and things will [should] work out.

Here's the finished sprocket and screw nut:
2012-11-22_10-43-32_120.jpg2012-11-25_16-03-06_329.jpg

This time I'm serious. Next will be the vises.

[John Donofrio]

At this point there is a base and a top. Time to get started on the leg vise.

First another glue-up to get a nice slab. My target thickness for the chop was 2 1/2" so my glue-up was about 2 5/8" thick.
2012-11-24_16-23-41_475.jpg

After taking the slab out of the clamps, it was cut and milled square on all sides as well as milled to thickness. I was almost ready to try this by hand but the angel on my shoulder, or devil depending on your perspective, made me think otherwise. Besides, I don't have a decent surface yet to do real hand planing. Unlike the massive slab earlier, there was no good way to hold this one steady.

It was too wide for the jointer so I used a sled in the surface planer to get a flat side. Then business as usual to get to the final thickness. Jointed an edge and then ripped the other parallel.

Now it was time for some more careful layout. Everything about the chop was laid out in pencil on this small slab. A hole was then drilled for the vise screw and the screw attached. From here, it was over to the assembled base. The chop was screwed to the leg and cinched down all the while making sure the center lines on the slab met the center lines on the leg. Once I was satisfied everything lined up, the same 5/8" forstner bit was used to locate the hole for the chain on the inside of the chop as was used to drill the hole through the leg.

My first 'screw-up', kinda. If you notice the little jig sitting on the top short stretcher in this pic, it was used as a drilling guide. Yes, I forgot to drill through the top short stretchers for the spax screws that will attach the top to the base. Oops. Since the side assemblies were already glued and draw-bored, I was pretty sure they were not coming apart. This solution worked well.
2012-11-28_20-07-57_272.jpg

Layout alone was used to locate the through mortise in the chop. Since all the layout on the leg and chop matched up well, I was comfortable the mortise was going to be located properly in the chop. but that didn't stop me from using a piece of scrap 3/4" ply to fabricate a test parallel guide to make sure it would work and was located properly. Once all was well in leg vise land, I moved onto making the real parallel guide. Red oak was used here. Since it's a sliding part, I figured it wasn't a good idea to use a soft wood. Plus it just looks nicer. The plan was initially to use the standard pin with holes in the parallel guide but once I stumbled upon the Chain Leg Vise, I just had to use it. I'm glad I did. It works wonderfully once adjusted properly.

Once the 'real' parallel guide was fabricated and fit properly it was time for some more draw-boring. But first the chop needs some shaping.

My first 'screw-up' of significance. Stopped cuts on the table saw were used to cut the leg width, lower portion of the chop. I miss-marked the exit point of the blade on the underside of the cut so with the stop point marked at the wrong location I cut into the area of the arc. This Sketchup pic shows what the original chop design was to look like.
Front Chop.jpg

Once my two-year-old-like tantrum stopped, I gathered my thoughts. After nearly tossing the chop, I decided that instead of the arc, a 45 would work just fine. It just wasn't the look I was going for. Oh well. I'm way over it. Some adjustments and we were back on track.

Back to the draw boring. There was a slight concern since these holes were much deeper than the previous ones on the legs but there was a plus side. Since the pins would have to travel much farther before they hit the offset holes in the parallel guide tenon, there is virtually no chance of getting the 'hole ream-out' I mentioned in the last post. They came out perfect in my opinion. This time there was no glue used, only the pins hold the guide in place. This should be a non-issue since the large forces will be pushing the guide into the chop, not trying to pull it out. Unless of course I try using the vise as a come-along. I'll re-post in a few dozen years to let you know how it's holding up.

Time to break down the entire base and apply some BLO. I also put some on the chop and parallel guide at this time.
2012-12-14_19-52-02_328.jpg2012-12-15_18-16-58_159.jpg

Rounding third on the leg vise. A picture is worth a thousand words, or at least a few hundred.
2012-12-16_14-02-35_131.jpg
2012-12-16_14-03-39_651.jpg

I think the pictures explain it well enough. If not, please don't hesitate to ask. What doesn't show in the pics is that the chain goes through the leg and attaches to a brass button mortised into the front of the chop. You can see that hole where the chop is sitting on the table awaiting it's BLO bath.


The completed vise in a test. As you can see, I had already started on the sliding deadman which I'll cover soon.
2012-12-21_19-58-10_474.jpg She really grips. I plan to add a suede liner but even without it, there is a lot of holding power - AND no pin to adjust.

Almost forgot... The roller guide. I'll start with this pic:
Ooops. Only 8 pics per post. I'll include it in the next installment.


Sorry for the length. And if you're still there, thanks for looking.

[ryan carlino]

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I'm about to embark on turning 137bf of 8/4 maple into something very similar. I'm on the fence in terms of split-top vs. solid top right now. Sending the 12" wide slabs through a planer seems a lot more reliable than trying to level a 24" slab by hand.

Do you feel pretty good about the 2 slabs remaining coplanar? My fear with a split-top is ensuring the 2 slabs end up where you want them to.

It's cool to see the chain used on your leg vise. I'm also on the fence to use that vs. the new cross from Benchcrafted. The downside (I see) with the cross is it hoses up the leg-to-stretcher mortise and tenon joint. You chain and roller looks sweet.

Thanks for sharing!
ryan