PM-V11 chisels...

[john davey]

So I went to the Baltimore woodworking show today and Veritas was there with all of their goodies. I got a chance to put my hands on these new chisels and my first impression is they feel light to me. They are still well balanced and of course well made it just seemed to me they were on the lighter side. I am not saying this is either a good or a bad thing as I was kinda perplexed and didn't really know if I liked the lightness or not. I am in a mode right now of looking for one good set of chisels and unloading all of my cobbled together sets. I can sharpen now and just want to find what fits my hand the best which is why I was so happy to get a first hand look at there. So for those of you that own them. Are they lighter to you as well and if so is it a good thing??? For the record I have a ton off flea market chisels, the older blue chips and the narex set right now that I am comparing the weight to. Thanks, John.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a set up to 3/4". I never thought much about the weight because it doesn't mean anything to me. What is important to me is the edge retention and the PM-V11's deliver there.

Next time I'm in the shop, I'll heft a LN and a LV and see how they compare. The LN will probably be heavier because it has a larger cross section.

Mike

[RickT Harding]

I agree with you. I was expecting them to feel heavier than they are. In the end though, I reach for them over every other chisel and need to finish out my set.

[Derek Cohen]

It is interesting that the Veritas and LN chisels look different in mass and size. The blades are the same thickness and they are very close in weight.

Below is a picture of the O1 Veritas (I do not have pictures of one with the PM-V11 steel - all that is different is the ferule) and the LN.



There is also a review here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...selReview.html

Chisels are a personal item. You must try them out for yourself. Even though the PM-V11 steel is special, there is more to chisel use than the edge alone. They must feel comfortable in your hand.

In this price range there are a number of chisels to look at, both Western (e.g. Blue Spruce) and Japanese (e.g. Koyamaichi). All have pros and cons. Find the one that you can feel most at one with.

Regards from Ottawa

Derek

[Stuart Tierney]

Someone I can identify with.

Yeah, they feel waaay too light to me as well. Light isn't bad per-se, but they feel handle-light and completely unbalanced as a result.

Basing my feelings on Blue Chips, a smattering of other Western chisels and dozens of Japanese chisels of all shapes and sizes.


They do give me more faith in the lighter weight Japanese chisels though. If folks think these things are durable enough, the lightest Japanese chisel is built like a brick outhouse by comparison.

Apparently, the LN are even lighter from what I've heard but I don't know by experience.

Stu.

[Niels Cosman]

I feel that with tools there are often conflicting notions about weight, function, and quality.

There are some tools you pick up and you want to feel that comforting ultra dense heft that says "I could play chicken with the battleship Missouri... and win." Think a brass bound infill stuffed with stone dense exotics.

There are other tools that you pick up and you they have been so stripped down and highly optimized that you find yourself wondering "where they pump in the helium?" or "is this fret saw made of pink foam"?

I think for me and bench chisels i would rather them be as light and well balanced as possible. I admit that the first time I got to handle the Veritas chisels my first impression was "damn that's light, weird" and after a bit of neuron rubbing I thought "damn that's light, sweet!" I find that even with heavy use of my Lie-Nielsens I find my fingers getting a bit crampy from gripping them at base of the blade all day while paring and choping, so light is definetly a big pro in my book.

Anyway, I ordered a set and when they arrive (in march)well see how they stack up against the Lie-Nielsen's (which are fantastic). I then have to deside which set stays in the shop and which set comes home.

Also another big pro is I don't think that I'll have to worry about these snapping in half like the new Shamley's , I mean Stanleys.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

I was a little bit surprised. Went to weigh my chisels and found out that the Veritas PM-V11 19 mm (3/4") weighs 133 grams, the Iyoroi with red oak handle in 20 mm is 137 grams and the Two Cherries in 21 mm is 156 grams. So the Japanese chisel and the Veritas one are very similarly weighted. No difference in the feeling by judging the weight but a slightly better feeling of the Veritas chisel concerning the balance.

The additional weight of the Two Cherries is feelable but it doesn't make the tool feel better than the Veritas or the Iyoroi. The more weight is mainly caused by the longer beech handle. The heavier handle decreases the balance compared to the other both.

Klaus

[Stuart Tierney]

I was a little bit surprised. Went to weigh my chisels and found out that the Veritas PM-V11 19 mm (3/4") weighs 133 grams, the Iyoroi with red oak handle in 20 mm is 137 grams and the Two Cherries in 21 mm is 156 grams. So the Japanese chisel and the Veritas one are very similarly weighted. No difference in the feeling by judging the weight but a slightly better feeling of the Veritas chisel concerning the balance.

The additional weight of the Two Cherries is feelable but it doesn't make the tool feel better than the Veritas or the Iyoroi. The more weight is mainly caused by the longer beech handle. The heavier handle decreases the balance compared to the other both.

Klaus

You're right, in overall weight there's little difference.

What I have noticed is that the 3/4" feels kind of ok, but the 3/8" feels all kinds of screwed up balance wise.

The balance point of the 3/4" is at the ferrule. The balance point of the 3/8" is up at the handle. I also tried several Japanese chisels of various widths and brands, and they almost always balance at the ferrule/socket. The 1/4" has it's balance point deep in the handle.

I think it's the moving balance point that throws them, that and the handle material feels 'light'. Either way, it feels all kinds of wacky and I don't like it.

Stu.

[Chris Griggs]

When I got my Veritas 01s the light weight, which was especially noticeable on the larger chisels was the first thing that struck me. I remember picking up the 1" chisel for the first time and literally laughing...the feeling was so odd, it was like what I was seeing and what I was feeling didn't line up.

In use though I really really like the weight and balance. For me it is especially nice when chopping. The chisel just seems to balance straight up with little to no effort. I at the time had a set of AI butt chisels, and as nice as the balance was on those, compared to the Veritas chisels they felt tippy when gripped by the blade tip for chopping.

Anyway, yes the weight on the them feels pretty bizarre. I personally really like it, but I had to put the chisels to use cutting joinery to appreciate it.

To answer your question. Yes, I think the weight is a good thing.

[Derek Cohen]

You're right, in overall weight there's little difference.


What I have noticed is that the 3/4" feels kind of ok, but the 3/8" feels all kinds of screwed up balance wise.


The balance point of the 3/4" is at the ferrule. The balance point of the 3/8" is up at the handle. I also tried several Japanese chisels of various widths and brands, and they almost always balance at the ferrule/socket. The 1/4" has it's balance point deep in the handle.


I think it's the moving balance point that throws them, that and the handle material feels 'light'. Either way, it feels all kinds of wacky and I don't like it.


Stu.

Stu my friend, you must have the special edition Krypton-infused PM-V11 steel with the Kobalt etching to alter the weight of the 1/4" and 3/8" blades so.

OK, teasing aside. I know the narrower blades would be lighter. But this is a good thing in short chisels in my book.


My 3/4" and 1" O1 versions are superbly balanced. This is clearly depicted in the review I wrote. I like the balance of the narrower blades even more (I now have the PM versions but they are non-standard, nevertheless the weight of the steel is not going to be different from the O1).


Here they are balancing on a Starrett rule ...





My earlier post tried hard to avoid a direct push for the Veritas chisels, which I think very highly of, and I am again trying to avoid my bias creeping in, however it would be equally wrong to allow incorrect information to remain (that is not directed at any particular reply).


Warm regards from Ottawa (emotionally speaking - it's -15 F here and 100 F back home!)


Derek

[Chris Griggs]

Warm regards from Ottawa (emotionally speaking - it's -15 F here and 100 F back home!)

Derek

A little bird told me you were going dog sledding (seriously). How'd that go for you?

[Derek Cohen]

A little bird told me you were going dog sledding (seriously). How'd that go for you?

Hi Chris

That is on the agenda!

I have been educated to understand that these dogs do all sorts of unpleasant things while pulling the sled, and that there is some "discomfort" when sitting directly behind one. My cunning plan is to train them to push the sled instead ..

Regards from Ottawa

Derek

[Jason Coen]

Derek,

You doing the "Grand Tour", so to speak? Sounds like good times.

[Stuart Tierney]

Stu my friend, you must have the special edition Krypton-infused PM-V11 steel with the Kobalt etching to alter the weight of the 1/4" and 3/8" blades so.


My earlier post tried hard to avoid a direct push for the Veritas chisels, which I think very highly of, and I am again trying to avoid my bias creeping in, however it would be equally wrong to allow incorrect information to remain (that is not directed at any particular reply).


Warm regards from Ottawa (emotionally speaking - it's -15 F here and 100 F back home!)


Derek

I'm not going to take a picture because I don't have the time and am not going to invest any more time in these chisels than I already have.

The balance point of my 3/4" is 1mm ahead of where the ferrule meets the blade proper. The balance point of my 3/8" is the handle side of halfway up the ferrule. The balance point of my 1/4" is the handle side of the 'bulge' in the handle near the ferrule.

So, it moves towards the blunt end by over 1" from the largest to the smallest.

It's not much, but it's more than enough to feel odd. I suppose that how I handle a chisel in hand means that it will tend to 'drop' edge down. Anything else feels odd and I don't like it. A range of Japanese chisels I have laying around all balance at the ferrule/socket or tending toward the pointy end.


Stu.

[Jim Neeley]

I have been educated to understand that these dogs do all sorts of unpleasant things while pulling the sled, and that there is some "discomfort" when sitting directly behind one. My cunning plan is to train them to push the sled instead ..

Hey buddy..

Up here the sled dogging phrase goes "Unless you're the lead dog, the view never changes!". If you want the sled dog's perspective, life down in the basket. Otherwise, sit tall! <g>

Cheers! The ride's a blast and, setting so low, it's a bit like driving a go-cart.. you feel like you're really hauling even at moderate speed!!

Jim in Alaska