Contributor
There does seem to be more of a "knack" thing with scrapers. I posted before about a highly skilled cabinetmaker who had worked with a lowly drunken helper who was world class with scrapers. My friend humbly took scraper lessons from the helper ,but was never his equal. My friend told me about that many times and always got agitated and worked up about it. " he couldn't make anything ! But damn, he could sharpen scrapers!
Contributor
Just do what I do. Use broken glass as a scraper. You never have to sharpen it. You just need to be a little careful.
Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.
Member
Similar set of experience with card scrapers here. I've spent countless time watch online videos on this subject and have gone through the process many times. End result is that I cannot achieve the nice shavings that generally show on the videos. My scrapers are an original Swedish package bought several years ago and some somewhat thinner scrapers bought from a for sale post over on WoodNet. I'll have to admit, however, that even without getting the shavings, I still see an improvement on the surfaces that I've scraped. Not always, but many times. Maybe I am doing something right.
Member
The thing that made it "click" for me was realizing how little pressure I needed to turn a hook. I had problems continually until I learned to let up while trying to turn the hook.
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
[OP]
Member
Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice, everyone. I'm glad, and a little surprised, to know I'm not the only one. It's not easy being outcasted to the fringes of the woodworking world, where we hunker in the corners and madly play with the scraper shavings of others.
I'm using scrapers from Lee Valley, so I think the scraper itself should be fine. I am going to have another sharpening fiesta tonight and take all the advice you've given me into account. One thing I will do this time is to file down the scraper quite a bit - perhaps I have work-hardened too much of the same scraper with these repeated sharpening attempts. I'll also lube up the burnisher (something I hadn't been doing), and use a light touch. Clear my mind, refocus...we'll see.
[OP]
Member
Paul, I was looking at that fella. But isn't the blade basically like a card scraper (meaning you have to sharpen and burnish in the same way)?Originally Posted by paul cottingham
Contributor
The Four Noble Truths of Woodworking Scrapers:
1) Woodworking Suffering exists
2) The Cause of Woodworking Suffering is using scrapers
3) You can end your Woodworking Suffering
4) The path to the end of your Woodworking Suffering is to not use scrapers at all, but broken glass.
What is the sound of no scraper scraping?
Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.
[OP]
Member
LOL.
Well Zach, not all of us have shards of glass at the ready!Although if there was a window in my shop I'd have punched it out already from...Woodworking Suffering.
Member
That's a great video! I don't think I've seen the entire process shown as clearly as that in any others I've watched.
Guest
Nobody has made an obsidian plane blade joke yet.
The longer this thread goes, the more i'm convinced it's an equipment issue for most people. Hard or soft pressure, I have always gotten a burr.
As long as the edge is clean enough that it doesn't tear under the burnish, and as long as the burnisher is hard enough that it isn't galled by the scraper (which I don't think is a given).
Most people here probably have a carbide drill bit they could experiment with to roll an edge if they are not sure. And to the extent they have a metalworking vise to put the scraper in (with soft jaws), that's better, too, it'll let you focus on what you're doing.
I usually oil the edge just with whatever oil is on my forehead or around my nose. I use my finger to put it on the blade....please don't read that as me suggesting you take a scraper with a big hairy burr and rub it briskly on your forehead. You could end up looking like you had a match with abdullah the butcher.
Member
A burnisher does need to be HARD. You could make one by grinding the teeth off of an OLD USA Nicholson triangular file. You would need to polish the burnisher smooth,though. Mine is an antique oval Stanley. Easily picked up in flea markets,at least before the internet and Ebay.
You can buy round carbide rod from MSC,McMaster Carr,Enco,etc.. Blank HSS drills (just drill length dowels) would make a good scraper. The carbide would be best,but might cost money in larger sizes (like 1/4") Check catalogs. Ax brittle as carbide is,I'd either get a decent diameter,or make the burnisher rather short. Does LV sell a short carbide burnisher?
Last edited by george wilson; 11-15-2012 at 5:00 PM.
Guest
They sell a small one that their listing says is for curved scrapers, and it's very inexpensive.
I have a crown burnisher that is HSS that literally was gouged by LN's scrapers (which aren't that hard). It just isnt properly heat treated right near the tang, which is where it's nice to use. further out, it's harder. I should probably take it apart and cut it down so the middle is closer to the tang.
How does one polish carbide, diamonds in a buffer? I have never been a fan of what scraping does to a planed surface, but nobody would notice other than another woodworker, and even then they would probably think we're idiots for not sanding. To the extent that the wood is hard, the scraper edge is polished nicely and the burnisher is polished nicely, the dullness is minimized.
I see comments from some on here also that their scraper doesn't hold an edge well. Generally even if you roll a nice burr, they will go dull quickly compared to plane iron, and you have to move to different sections. If you get a minute or two of work out of the bottom edge of a card scraper, I think that's pretty good. You can just do both sides and the top and use the same scraper for quite a while. The only scraper blades that I have seen that hold an edge for a long time are the A2 scraper blades that go in LN and LV's scraper planes. When you roll a burr on one of those, they will go for a long time, and they will leave a nice shiny surface. They're just a PITA to use if you scrape wood that has moved a little bit since it was finish planed.
Contributor
The carbide router bit I used to make my burnisher is a 1/4 inch one shot deal commonly thrown away in shops using plastic laminate. The carbide rod commonly provided in the scraper gizmos is, I think , also 1/4. With Sherlock Holmes like skill I have figured out that George doesn't do much laminate work! An old guy I once worked with would only use the agate burnishers sold for gold leaf.
Member
3 in 1 oil is a good lubricant.
Lie Nielsen makes a good card scraper.
I sharpen mine on diamond hones and burnish with LV burnisher.
Contributor
1. This might be heresy, but are you sure you are using the scraper correctly? Not mentioned anywhere here. That is, you form it into a "bow" by pushing out the middle while you scrape?
2. I may have missed this in your explanation of your problems, but do you know exactly what's WRONG with your edge? If you don't know, then it will be hard to rectify it. If you look at it under high magnification and you should be able to see immediately where it has gone astray. Again I didn't catch the specific shortcoming in your post, but I may not have been attentive enough. This might seem like a silly suggestion, but it's the answer to many sharpening quandaries. I've also found that it is difficult at times for some people to force themselves to do it. Human nature, perhaps. My sharpening went from hit-and-miss to outstanding once I had a clear idea of precisely how it missed.
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